Some days ya just gotta laugh!

https://www.hdforums.com:80/m_334119...tm.htm#3342626

 

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I was the seller of my son's slip-ons. Kelly complained on the sixth and I simply offered to take the mufflers back and give a full refund.

I finally caught this thread and need to say that the pipes never looked like that on my son's bike or when they were packed. Kelly never sent me pics and never agreed to send the mufflers back to me for my inspection. I agreed back on the 6th to simply refund his money. I never tried to deceive anyone and certainly am not going to do it here,whereI enjoy hanging out and have bought and sold a few items all with great dealings and new friends. I agreed to provide him with a full refund and asked him to send me themufflers back.He wouldn't agree to that and demanded a refund immediately via PayPal beforehe wouldsend the mufflers back to me so I could see them. Those pics look horrible. I've sold maybe a half dozen or mopre items here and I challenge anyone to say they got anything other than a square deal with me. The mufflers in those pics do look like crap. Five minutes with a plumbers torch could do that or running on an over-lean bike. My son ran them on a 2007 1200 with Stage 1 a/c and a Power Commander with proper mapping. The bike ran great and the pipes looked fine.

I've read through all the drama hereand thought everyone would like to know thatIoffered to take the mufflers back and provide a full refund - but that never happened. At that time I thought he was only talking about bluing where the mufflers slip onto the header pipe. These pipes look nothing like they did when they came off my son's bike.

I leave tomorrow morning on an eight day road trip (Myrtle Beach, Deals Gap) soI won't be on-line to defend myself but have a good time at my expense Kelly and stir the pot as you have with your emails over past days. All you had to do was send me the mufflers back and get a refund - but I cannow see why you would not do that. Here's my email to Kelly onMay6th.Does that sound like someone who "just wanted the money" and was out to screw another member here - how about an opinion about that??Like I said, I'll be off line for 8 days; have at it and enjoy yourself Kelly but it still amazes me how you would instigate all of this drama and tell me in your last email to enjoy theand refused to send back the mufflers and receive your refund.

My opinion, based upon the number and intensity of the emails form Kelly after I offered a full refund strike me as someone who is obsessing. Look at his continual following and posting here. He has the time to draw this unwarranted fire upon me but doesn't want to send the mufflers back. Now that I've seen the pictures he created/posted and see that he continues with his rant, all the while refusing to just send the mufflers back. Think about it, if the mufflers looked that bad when they were shipped, would I have offered them again for sale knowing thatthere is already one pissed off forum member? It just doesn't make sense. So, before anyone vilifies me further, be alerted to the fact that I immediately, first round of emails, offered to take the pipes back and provide a refund. He did not want that then and doesn't seem to want it now. Well, you can lead a horse to water but can't make it drink.

If you don't want to send them back and don't want a refund then I would also be happy to let you keep the pipes and make a donation to a charity (in your name) for the full amount you paid. Think about it - I don't need an answer until the 20th. I also don't need, or appreciate, the unearned rath you have brought but some things in life are out of my control. Here's my email the day Kelly first contacted me back on the sixth.

On May 6, 2008, at 5:29 PM, J.J.N. wrote:

> Kelly,
>
> Send them back and you will receive a refund.
>
> For what it is worth, you will have bluing on an

 

Why did I just KNOW you were going to say that? Yup, thats right folks, they somehow transformed in the box on the way to me. Checked them out real good before you sent them did you John? Those photos were taken less than an hour after they came out of the box, and about 3 hours after UPS delivered the package. And now you know why I refused to send them back to him so he could claim I damaged them, or "they never looked like that when I had them" and refuse the refund, leaving me without a refund, or the pipes. Yea, plumbers torch or lean bike. Maybe aliens where involved too? I guess that explains the RUST on the welds of the hangers as well right? In the HOUR I had them out of the box before I contacted you, I had them mounted up and run on a over lean bike I DONT EVEN OWN (I don't own a sportster folks, I own a Street Glide) long enough to do that to them before I took the photos.

Jesuz, yea, Im the diabolical genius behind "the great $85 pipe scam of 2008"

By the way John, I ALWAYS made it clear that you offered to refund my money, but only on YOUR terms, and YOUR timeframe. And for the record, posted the ENTIRE email exchange we had, before decided to take it down in fairness to you not being around to defend yourself.

Just one question for you, why is it you don't seem to post photos of the stuff you are selling? When you were asked for a photo of the windshield you were selling in the same thread, you gave a link to the manufactures website, not the actual item you are selling? Pretty damn convenient for you that there's never any photo evidence of the "before shipment" condition of your stuff isn't it. You had those pipes listed for three months. Im sure you could have managed to take and post a photo of them in that time frame, unless of course you had a reason NOT to.

Note that he made these statements to me via email, you can see it in post 64 below:

The pipes are used as bluing comes from use. I assumed that anyone buying used pipes would know and understand that.[/u] I apologize if I over estimated your comprehension.



Yet now he denies they were blued when he shipped them. Four days ago he tries to JUSTIFY the bluing it in private email, now he tries to DENY it in a public forum.



Then theres this statement of his, again, see post 64 below:

I checked the posting and, contrary to your assertion, never used the word "excellant" or "just about brand new." I also did not see "on the bike for very few miles."

Um, well John, theres the small matter of this:



How many times does he need to be busted lying to me?

 

Ditto, I hope every hair on his *** turns to fish hooks
capt42a

 

Here John, Im not trying to hide anything.

Readers,

I am Making this post to contain the actual email exchange between myself and the seller involved in this transaction. This is so there will be no mistaking what transpired. I leave it to you to form your own opinion. I believe I have given an accurate account of the transaction in my posting above, but will let you decide based on the actual emails below.

My emails are in red. The Sellers Emails are in blue.

My first email to him, upon discovering the condition of the mufflers:

05-06-08

XXXX,

I received the mufflers today (cycle shacks for sporty)
To say I am less than pleased would be an understatement.
Your ad listed them as "excellent" condition, "just about brand new" and "on the bike for very few miles"
I don't recall ever seeing any muffler that is blued all to hell in several places, new out of the box. Nor would I (or anyone else I suspect) consider pipes that are blued all over to be "like new"

As these were your sons mufflers, Im willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that maybe you never saw the condition they are in prior to shipping them, and were relying on his description of their condition.
Either way, they are in NO way acceptable. I would not pay $20 for these mufflers in the state they are in.

I leave the ball in your court to make this right, which to me means a full refund, and I send these mufflers back.

XXXX
ww1flyingace

His response:

XXXX,

Send them back and you will receive a refund.
For what it is worth, you will have bluing on any slip-ons, as has been my experience. My son had these on his Sporty for a short period of time (few months) and put a few thousand miles on them. . If you buy brand new slip ons form CS, they will look like th eones you rceeived in very short order. I am sorry that you are not satisfied and will refund your money

XXXX

Me
05-06-08 XXXX,

While I understand that many single wall pipes will eventually blue to some degree or another, that logic is akin to saying its ok to represent a car as being "almost new" when in fact it has a big dent in the door, because most cars at some point will get a dent in them somewhere anyway.

What CAN happen is irrelevant. What HAS happened is what should be revealed.

Anyway, as long as your willing to take them back, its all good. I DO think that it would be in your best interest to clearly state the blued condition if you choose to list them again thou.

Ill get them on the way back to you.

Thanx,
XXXX

Him
[color=#0000CC]
XXXX,

The pipes are not dented, let alone a "big dent". A dent would be damage; the pipes were not "damaged."
The pipes are used as bluing comes from use. I assumed that anyone buying used pipes would know and understand that. I apologize if I over estimated your comprehension. I checked the posting and, contrary to your assertion, never used the word "excellant" or "just about brand new." I also did not see "on the bike for very few miles."


I do not know where the bluing was/is but I suspect it is just where it slips on to the header pipes where, of course, there is a heat shield after complete installation because all exhausts will blue there (and other places on the header pipe that are also covered by heat shields for that exact reason.)

I do not want to have an e-argument with you and you seem like the type that will not let it go unless you win. Send the mufflers back and I'll send your money back. There was never any intent to deceive or trick anyone. I will be away on a road trip (Myrtle Beach then Deals Gap) for about nine days or so (leaving Friday) so get the mufflers back to me but there's no need to rush as I will be gone until about the 19th or 20th. Again, I am truly sorry that you are not sati

 

Ok folks, here is the shipping label, UPS delivery (time) confirmation, and a screen capture of Johns first response back to me, (posted by him above) showing he responded at 5:29, meaning I contacted him sometime prior to that regarding the condition of the pipes. You can see that only 4 hours transpired. I actually got home about 4:30, but I cant prove that. Only that they were delivered at 1:30. Note however, the delivery confirmation indicates they were left on my porch, as no-one was home. You can clearly see the amount of time that I had the pipes in my possession, before contacting John. You also have the photos of the pipes. If any of you know what EXIF data is, you can take those photos, open them in any application that will display that data, and see the exact time and date those photos were taken.

Now, you have this, you have the entire email exchange between us, you have my take on the situation, as well as his. I leave it to your judgement. Did:

A: I hatch a diabolical plot to take "excellent" condition mufflers, and in less than 4 hours time (actually only an hour, but I cant prove to you what time I got home and opened the box) intentionally destroy them as implied above, by installing them on a overly lean running Sportster, (which I don't own), running the bike at full blast for long enough to cause that damage, deface them with a plumbers torch, add some type of chemical to create rust on the welds , and/or falsify the photos, all in a brilliant plot to defraud John out of the grand sum of $85.00 by asking for a refund. Do you REALLY think I had the time to do that to his supposed "excellent" mufflers? And Does anyone really think I would go to that much effort to scam him out of $85?

or

B. A seller got busted selling garbage, that in the entire 3 months he was trying to sell it, repeatedly re-listing it in different threads, never once posted a photo of its condition.


I leave it to you to decide what happened here. As to what who is at fault here, I refer to the information I have posted, and ask you to apply common sense.

I have had NO doubt, all along, that if I called him on the condition of the pipes, he would deny he sold them looking like that, and/or try and blame their condition on me, which would be his grounds for refusing to refund my money once he got them back. He keeps asserting that he "offered to refund", but since he claims "they never looked like that when I had them" would I have ever seen the refund once had I sent them back? The fact that he doesn't post photos of his items in his ads so their condition can be seen before they get shipped, sets him up perfectly to deny any damage once the part is received by the buyer.

As for Johns comments about my rabid pursuit of this matter. Its simple. I don't like being ****ed over. And I will not just roll over and take it, regardless of the amount involved. If thats a character flaw of mine, so be it.

 

Ok John, I want to you clearly state in this forum, that if those mufflers are returned to you, as of this day moving forward, my money, including all shipping fees, will be refunded to me via pay-pal, once you have them back. Your gonna deny you sold them looking like that, and since you never posted any photos of them prior to shipping them, I guess theirs nothing I can do about that. But Ill give you the chance to make this right. If anyone is gullible enough to think I had the time, means, or inclination to damage them to that extend just to try and take advantage of you, nothing more I can post will convince them otherwise. I hope (and think) most of the people reading this are smarter than that.

So plain and simple, as of now, are you going to take them back and refund my money, including shipping, or are you going to claim I did the damage to them, and refuse?

 

you learned the hard way. i only had to spend some time in the pokey to realize that 98% of cops are dirtier then most criminals. the other 2% are members of this forum.

 

the saga continues