DO YOU COUNTER-STEER?
#112
04-23-2008 | 11:00 PM
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,106
Likes: 11
From: SoCal
RE: DO YOU COUNTER-STEER?
ORIGINAL: Dixie Dreg
After reading this post earlier today I went riding and did some experimenting. Sure as the world if you push right the bike goes left and vice versa. I guess I have been doing countersteering without really thinking about it. I just sort of fall into a curve by dropping the bike and then applying some power to stand it up through the curve. I know that is not a real clear description, but it is the best I can do. One question, once you are going down, as in too much lean angle, can you pull out to upright by countersteering? Seems like you could, at least it sounds right in theory.
After reading this post earlier today I went riding and did some experimenting. Sure as the world if you push right the bike goes left and vice versa. I guess I have been doing countersteering without really thinking about it. I just sort of fall into a curve by dropping the bike and then applying some power to stand it up through the curve. I know that is not a real clear description, but it is the best I can do. One question, once you are going down, as in too much lean angle, can you pull out to upright by countersteering? Seems like you could, at least it sounds right in theory.
If you are going down because you have scraped hard parts and have levered the wheels off the pavement (I have done this in a parking lot), there really is not a lot you can do. However, if you started scraping, and are afraid of levering the wheels and going down, then as counter-intuitive as this may sound, countersteer more, and add throttle. The added throttle will unload the suspension a bit more (it can only unload to a point), and give you more a bit ground clearance. Watch racers, they take curves slow in (braking BEFORE entering the turn), and fast out (throttle all the way through). However if the road is off camber like possibly in the picture, then there really is not much more you can lean over.
#113
04-23-2008 | 11:02 PM
Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,449
Likes: 67
RE: DO YOU COUNTER-STEER?
I'm kinda surprised this topic went on as long as it has.
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The REAL question is:
How many of you can counter-steer your CAR???
I miss my 1991 Nissan 240sx... Lowered on fully adjustable coil-overs...wheels...intake...exhaust...inectors...und erdrive pulleys...quickisnap e-brake. That was a fun car.
I built that back in 93' - before all of this drift racing stuff took-off.
We used to call it 'having fun'. One of the few things that comapred to riding a bike on some twisties was seeing a 'curves ahead' sign.... Hitting the first curve way hot...dropping down a gear and keeping it sideways thru a couple of miles of turns.
---
The REAL question is:
How many of you can counter-steer your CAR???
I miss my 1991 Nissan 240sx... Lowered on fully adjustable coil-overs...wheels...intake...exhaust...inectors...und erdrive pulleys...quickisnap e-brake. That was a fun car.
I built that back in 93' - before all of this drift racing stuff took-off.
We used to call it 'having fun'. One of the few things that comapred to riding a bike on some twisties was seeing a 'curves ahead' sign.... Hitting the first curve way hot...dropping down a gear and keeping it sideways thru a couple of miles of turns.
#114
04-23-2008 | 11:32 PM
Cruiser
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
From: Phoenix, AZ
RE: DO YOU COUNTER-STEER?
ORIGINAL: carpetride
looks like that guy is leaned over to the max..sparkin
he just went into the turn too hot, too late or on a bad line
if you don't countersteer and just lean, the bike is too slow to react but even then you are countersteering but just more slowly.
ORIGINAL: cray49a
I bet this guys wishes he knew how!
I bet this guys wishes he knew how!
he just went into the turn too hot, too late or on a bad line
if you don't countersteer and just lean, the bike is too slow to react but even then you are countersteering but just more slowly.
I think she's just picking up her cell phone...or aneclairor something
Seriously ..look at the rear tire..looks like a blow out..
ride safe!
Doc
#115
04-23-2008 | 11:45 PM
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,831
Likes: 11
From: Nomad
RE: DO YOU COUNTER-STEER?
Countersteer is countersteer, but there is a difference in when you use it.
A flick of countersteer to initiate a turn above 20mph is one thing.
Countersteer to control a skid or drift is another.
But, yeah...countersteering...lots of fun
A flick of countersteer to initiate a turn above 20mph is one thing.
Countersteer to control a skid or drift is another.
But, yeah...countersteering...lots of fun
#116
05-04-2008 | 01:28 PM
Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 709
Likes: 1
From:
RE: DO YOU COUNTER-STEER?
ORIGINAL: MNPGRider
The act of countersteering causes the bike to lean, but once leaned over, the wheel will point in the direction of the turn. From that picture, you cannot make the determination if he consciously counter steered or not. It won't do him any more good now, as he's already scraping. His one chance now is to quickly press left to bring the bike back up and go straight off the road before he runs into the oncoming rider. If the rider continues to go wide, hopefully the oncoming rider knows enough to also press left and go around behind him on the inside, i.e. evasive manuever.
The act of countersteering causes the bike to lean, but once leaned over, the wheel will point in the direction of the turn. From that picture, you cannot make the determination if he consciously counter steered or not. It won't do him any more good now, as he's already scraping. His one chance now is to quickly press left to bring the bike back up and go straight off the road before he runs into the oncoming rider. If the rider continues to go wide, hopefully the oncoming rider knows enough to also press left and go around behind him on the inside, i.e. evasive manuever.
So the correct statement above would be the Handle bars begin to turn into the corner after the apex to achieve a proper exit.
Sorry to bring it back up but new riders really need to understand and learn this stuff. And Practice too.
#117
05-04-2008 | 02:02 PM
Big Kahuna HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 29,598
Likes: 18
From: Oregon
RE: DO YOU COUNTER-STEER?
ORIGINAL: MNPGRider
The act of countersteering causes the bike to lean, but once leaned over, the wheel will point in the direction of the turn. From that picture, you cannot make the determination if he consciously counter steered or not. It won't do him any more good now, as he's already scraping. His one chance now is to quickly press left to bring the bike back up and go straight off the road before he runs into the oncoming rider. If the rider continues to go wide, hopefully the oncoming rider knows enough to also press left and go around behind him on the inside, i.e. evasive manuever.
The act of countersteering causes the bike to lean, but once leaned over, the wheel will point in the direction of the turn. From that picture, you cannot make the determination if he consciously counter steered or not. It won't do him any more good now, as he's already scraping. His one chance now is to quickly press left to bring the bike back up and go straight off the road before he runs into the oncoming rider. If the rider continues to go wide, hopefully the oncoming rider knows enough to also press left and go around behind him on the inside, i.e. evasive manuever.
Only the countersteer will keep the bike leaned over against the forces of gyroscopic precession, centrifugal force and kinetic energy. The tires, being on the sides, will turn the same way a Dixie Cup will turn if laid on its side and rolled. The differential in diameters across the contact surface of the tires does all of the turning - just like the Dixie Cup. You just have to get the tire over, thus the countersteer.
The effect of the contact surface differential of the tire is far greater than the effect of a slight opposite turn of the front wheel.
#118
05-04-2008 | 10:56 PM
Club Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 23,178
Likes: 19
From: elsewhere
RE: DO YOU COUNTER-STEER?
Never really thought about this before I read this thread. I'm like Cardboard, I learned all my riding habits (good and bad) way long ago. Still, as I was riding today I paid attention to what I was doing. Turns out that I've been countersteering all along. It's good to know that there's a name for making a motorcycle turn.
#119
05-04-2008 | 11:18 PM
Road Master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,038
Likes: 2
From: Florida
RE: DO YOU COUNTER-STEER?
ORIGINAL: cray49a
CURIOUS. How many of you use counter-steering predominantly?
When I learned to ride (way back when)I never did. Of course, I never used the front brake either back in those days.
But about 3 years ago a pocket rocket friend of mine gave me a book to read on riding techniques. I've been counter-steering ever since. MORE IMMEDIATE and EXACTING CONTROL especially in exigent circumstances.
I have a bud who doesn't believe in it. But, he's stubborn old school.
CURIOUS. How many of you use counter-steering predominantly?
When I learned to ride (way back when)I never did. Of course, I never used the front brake either back in those days.
But about 3 years ago a pocket rocket friend of mine gave me a book to read on riding techniques. I've been counter-steering ever since. MORE IMMEDIATE and EXACTING CONTROL especially in exigent circumstances.
I have a bud who doesn't believe in it. But, he's stubborn old school.
Pocket rocket:
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