Why are non stock pipes being targeted
#22
03-05-2008, 10:06 AM
RE: Why are non stock pipes being targeted
All the officer has to do is say “I believe that those pipes are not in compliance with the City / EPA Regulations” and write the citation. The burden of proof is on the person that receives the citation not the officer. Taking it to court could most likely get the citation dismissed but would require your time and effort. If the court date is two weeks away and you are from out of state, the time and money required to return and contest the citation would have to be taken into consideration. It could be less costly to, grit your teeth and pay the fine, depending on the amount of the fine. All of which has probably been taken into consideration by the officials that would be involved. The situation could make you pretty steamed butthat hasprobably occurred a few times before.
Arcane
Arcane
#23
03-05-2008, 10:23 AM
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RE: Why are non stock pipes being targeted
Continue all the debate, but here's what's happening:
http://www.abatepalmbeach.com/legislativenews.html
Jim aka kiltiemon
http://www.abatepalmbeach.com/legislativenews.html
Jim aka kiltiemon
#24
03-05-2008, 12:15 PM
RE: Why are non stock pipes being targeted
The stamp on the pipes is the key. All a LEO has to do is look for the stamp. Some (<--keyword) aftermarket pipes are legal and stamped that way also. I have SE-II's on my Sporty that are stamped "Not For Road Use". Many aftermarket pipes are stamped this way - read "give me a ticket, please". I've been lucky so far, but things are much more lenient in MI than other areas. The Rush's I had on my EGC had no markings whatsoever! Also = ticket. My current aftermarket pipes on my EGC are HD touring mufflers and are stamped EPA approved for use on HDFL, FX motorcycles only. No ticket. If they were modified and installed on a bike different than the designation --> ticket.
When the dealer installed my SE-II's and my Rush pipes, they never said a word about leaglity, liability, or whatever. I'm sure that if you or I get pulled over/ticketed, the dealer will say "I just did what they asked me to do". I did, however explicitly ask about the warranty andGOT IT IN WRITINGthat the aftermarket work that I had done did not affect the bike warranty. I might ask about the pipes & legality, etc. However, as I mentioned, MI is much more lenient in the areas where I ride + I don't make noise when it is inappropriate. HTH, YMMV.
When the dealer installed my SE-II's and my Rush pipes, they never said a word about leaglity, liability, or whatever. I'm sure that if you or I get pulled over/ticketed, the dealer will say "I just did what they asked me to do". I did, however explicitly ask about the warranty andGOT IT IN WRITINGthat the aftermarket work that I had done did not affect the bike warranty. I might ask about the pipes & legality, etc. However, as I mentioned, MI is much more lenient in the areas where I ride + I don't make noise when it is inappropriate. HTH, YMMV.
ORIGINAL: Blind Boy Grunt
Most of the new bikes on the floor of my local dealer already have modified exhaust; Screamin' Eagle, Rinehart, V&H, etc. So, if I bought one of these new bikes would thestealer/HD be liable as well if I were pulled over for "non-stock" pipes?
Most of the new bikes on the floor of my local dealer already have modified exhaust; Screamin' Eagle, Rinehart, V&H, etc. So, if I bought one of these new bikes would thestealer/HD be liable as well if I were pulled over for "non-stock" pipes?
#25
03-05-2008, 12:20 PM
RE: Why are non stock pipes being targeted
Thats interesting. So if you refuse to partake an instruction from a civil officer to rev a bike for a test they deem necessary, I am wondering if it givesthemany grounds forarresting youfor not following/resisting,not complying with an instruction from an officer?
I know nothing about the law at this level....Heck, I am Just an angry white American..... But it would suck to get your bike towed and yourself hooked up for a ride downtown. My guess is they could pull rank and impound your bike as evidence, if they wanted to play Shietty and test the bike themselves with that refusal from you. Then show up in court with their results, all at the end of the day at your costs of getting the bike out of impound etc...!
Any thoughtson that?
I know nothing about the law at this level....Heck, I am Just an angry white American..... But it would suck to get your bike towed and yourself hooked up for a ride downtown. My guess is they could pull rank and impound your bike as evidence, if they wanted to play Shietty and test the bike themselves with that refusal from you. Then show up in court with their results, all at the end of the day at your costs of getting the bike out of impound etc...!
Any thoughtson that?
#26
03-05-2008, 12:45 PM
RE: Why are non stock pipes being targeted
ORIGINAL: bobbyg12
The stamp on the pipes is the key. All a LEO has to do is look for the stamp. Some (<--keyword) aftermarket pipes are legal and stamped that way also. I have SE-II's on my Sporty that are stamped "Not For Road Use". Many aftermarket pipes are stamped this way - read "give me a ticket, please". I've been lucky so far, but things are much more lenient in MI than other areas. The Rush's I had on my EGC had no markings whatsoever! Also = ticket. My current aftermarket pipes on my EGC are HD touring mufflers and are stamped EPA approved for use on HDFL, FX motorcycles only. No ticket. If they were modified and installed on a bike different than the designation --> ticket.
When the dealer installed my SE-II's and my Rush pipes, they never said a word about leaglity, liability, or whatever. I'm sure that if you or I get pulled over/ticketed, the dealer will say "I just did what they asked me to do". I did, however explicitly ask about the warranty andGOT IT IN WRITINGthat the aftermarket work that I had done did not affect the bike warranty. I might ask about the pipes & legality, etc. However, as I mentioned, MI is much more lenient in the areas where I ride + I don't make noise when it is inappropriate. HTH, YMMV.
The stamp on the pipes is the key. All a LEO has to do is look for the stamp. Some (<--keyword) aftermarket pipes are legal and stamped that way also. I have SE-II's on my Sporty that are stamped "Not For Road Use". Many aftermarket pipes are stamped this way - read "give me a ticket, please". I've been lucky so far, but things are much more lenient in MI than other areas. The Rush's I had on my EGC had no markings whatsoever! Also = ticket. My current aftermarket pipes on my EGC are HD touring mufflers and are stamped EPA approved for use on HDFL, FX motorcycles only. No ticket. If they were modified and installed on a bike different than the designation --> ticket.
When the dealer installed my SE-II's and my Rush pipes, they never said a word about leaglity, liability, or whatever. I'm sure that if you or I get pulled over/ticketed, the dealer will say "I just did what they asked me to do". I did, however explicitly ask about the warranty andGOT IT IN WRITINGthat the aftermarket work that I had done did not affect the bike warranty. I might ask about the pipes & legality, etc. However, as I mentioned, MI is much more lenient in the areas where I ride + I don't make noise when it is inappropriate. HTH, YMMV.
ORIGINAL: Blind Boy Grunt
Most of the new bikes on the floor of my local dealer already have modified exhaust; Screamin' Eagle, Rinehart, V&H, etc. So, if I bought one of these new bikes would thestealer/HD be liable as well if I were pulled over for "non-stock" pipes?
Most of the new bikes on the floor of my local dealer already have modified exhaust; Screamin' Eagle, Rinehart, V&H, etc. So, if I bought one of these new bikes would thestealer/HD be liable as well if I were pulled over for "non-stock" pipes?
Window tints are another example. I think NY is pretty strict vs FL or AZ. Traveling through NY they cannot ticket you for their tint factor.
It is not illegal to change the pipes as long as the volume is not increased. Since when due I have to "prove" innocence? doesn't the governmetn have to prove guilt. Note the Denver law has been suspended since the last ticket issued had been dismissed. If it is anoice ordinance then articulate volume at adistance and speed since that is what the DOT rules indicate.http://www.abateofcolo.org/abate1.html If they the LEO wants ot cite for an "EPA" violation please show one then that exists. If they want to write a citationon the side of a packed interstate and articulate a noise violation that gets a little harder.
#27
03-05-2008, 01:16 PM
Ultimate HDF Member
RE: Why are non stock pipes being targeted
ORIGINAL: Buddha4
Once again they have to cite that the vehicle vilolates the registered states laws. If you have a state that only issues 1 plate if you travel into another juristiction that requires a front and rear they cannot impound or ticket your vehicle for "not compliyng with thier laws"
Window tints are another example. I think NY is pretty strict vs FL or AZ. Traveling through NY they cannot ticket you for their tint factor.
ORIGINAL: bobbyg12
The stamp on the pipes is the key. All a LEO has to do is look for the stamp. Some (<--keyword) aftermarket pipes are legal and stamped that way also. I have SE-II's on my Sporty that are stamped "Not For Road Use". Many aftermarket pipes are stamped this way - read "give me a ticket, please". I've been lucky so far, but things are much more lenient in MI than other areas. The Rush's I had on my EGC had no markings whatsoever! Also = ticket. My current aftermarket pipes on my EGC are HD touring mufflers and are stamped EPA approved for use on HDFL, FX motorcycles only. No ticket. If they were modified and installed on a bike different than the designation --> ticket.
When the dealer installed my SE-II's and my Rush pipes, they never said a word about leaglity, liability, or whatever. I'm sure that if you or I get pulled over/ticketed, the dealer will say "I just did what they asked me to do". I did, however explicitly ask about the warranty andGOT IT IN WRITINGthat the aftermarket work that I had done did not affect the bike warranty. I might ask about the pipes & legality, etc. However, as I mentioned, MI is much more lenient in the areas where I ride + I don't make noise when it is inappropriate. HTH, YMMV.
The stamp on the pipes is the key. All a LEO has to do is look for the stamp. Some (<--keyword) aftermarket pipes are legal and stamped that way also. I have SE-II's on my Sporty that are stamped "Not For Road Use". Many aftermarket pipes are stamped this way - read "give me a ticket, please". I've been lucky so far, but things are much more lenient in MI than other areas. The Rush's I had on my EGC had no markings whatsoever! Also = ticket. My current aftermarket pipes on my EGC are HD touring mufflers and are stamped EPA approved for use on HDFL, FX motorcycles only. No ticket. If they were modified and installed on a bike different than the designation --> ticket.
When the dealer installed my SE-II's and my Rush pipes, they never said a word about leaglity, liability, or whatever. I'm sure that if you or I get pulled over/ticketed, the dealer will say "I just did what they asked me to do". I did, however explicitly ask about the warranty andGOT IT IN WRITINGthat the aftermarket work that I had done did not affect the bike warranty. I might ask about the pipes & legality, etc. However, as I mentioned, MI is much more lenient in the areas where I ride + I don't make noise when it is inappropriate. HTH, YMMV.
ORIGINAL: Blind Boy Grunt
Most of the new bikes on the floor of my local dealer already have modified exhaust; Screamin' Eagle, Rinehart, V&H, etc. So, if I bought one of these new bikes would thestealer/HD be liable as well if I were pulled over for "non-stock" pipes?
Most of the new bikes on the floor of my local dealer already have modified exhaust; Screamin' Eagle, Rinehart, V&H, etc. So, if I bought one of these new bikes would thestealer/HD be liable as well if I were pulled over for "non-stock" pipes?
Window tints are another example. I think NY is pretty strict vs FL or AZ. Traveling through NY they cannot ticket you for their tint factor.
In my state the laws state that I'm not required to wear a helmet while operating one of my bikes on a public highway.
That being the case, why should I be required to wear a helmet in a "helmet mandatory state" if I'm just passing through, since it isn't required in my home state where my bike is registered?
I know, I know, that's a different situation altogether...
#28
03-05-2008, 01:22 PM
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RE: Why are non stock pipes being targeted
ORIGINAL: kiltiemon
Bikes ARE being pulled over on AIA both South AND North of Delray Beach. This is on theOcean Road. They are being cited for non-EPA pipes. THAT is the justification. Noise is the "probable cause" being used to pull them over. This has been going on for some time now!
See "ABATE Palm Beach" and there should be something mentioned on their website.
For a bit of history... the communities along AIA have, for MANY years, attempted in one way or another, to limit use of AIA to local residents. No parking, no bike lanes, enforcement, blocking beach access, etc. Nothing new except that now they're targeting motorcycles.
This kind of crap IS coming to a highway near you
AND... it has absolutely NOTHING to do with "Tree Huggers". The issue has to do with Public Access! Get your enemy straight, people!
Jim aka kiltiemon
Bikes ARE being pulled over on AIA both South AND North of Delray Beach. This is on theOcean Road. They are being cited for non-EPA pipes. THAT is the justification. Noise is the "probable cause" being used to pull them over. This has been going on for some time now!
See "ABATE Palm Beach" and there should be something mentioned on their website.
For a bit of history... the communities along AIA have, for MANY years, attempted in one way or another, to limit use of AIA to local residents. No parking, no bike lanes, enforcement, blocking beach access, etc. Nothing new except that now they're targeting motorcycles.
This kind of crap IS coming to a highway near you
AND... it has absolutely NOTHING to do with "Tree Huggers". The issue has to do with Public Access! Get your enemy straight, people!
Jim aka kiltiemon
He was pulled over in Ocean Ridge on A1A right where you are talking about. He was not cited for noise, only for non stock pipes. No other tickets. I don't know what the stated reason for pulling him over was but his grandson was on the back so I know he was driving carefully. I don't know if his pipes are so-called street legal but they are baffled and he does not drive like a moron. I used to live nearby on the mainland in Lantana and I agree this probably has to do more with access. Alot of these one-horse towns on this stretch are trying tokeep the non elite non residents out of what they consider to be their private property even though A1A is a federal road and it is the only access to the local beaches. I told him he should fight the ticket, but like someone else said they count on alot of people not taking the time and effort. He just paid the fine. P.S. my non stock V&H straightshots are baffled and I did not see any stamp on them that saidnot legal forstreet usewhen I installed them.
#29
03-05-2008, 01:30 PM
RE: Why are non stock pipes being targeted
Why? because they want more money out of people. Anything else is bullshit. EPA bullshit, Bikes get better gas mileage than most petrol(gas) fueled cars/trucks.
#30
03-05-2008, 02:06 PM
RE: Why are non stock pipes being targeted
ORIGINAL: OldFenderGuy
What about the 'required equipment' for the rider of a bike?
In my state the laws state that I'm not required to wear a helmet while operating one of my bikes on a public highway.
That being the case, why should I be required to wear a helmet in a "helmet mandatory state" if I'm just passing through, since it isn't required in my home state where my bike is registered?
I know, I know, that's a different situation altogether...
What about the 'required equipment' for the rider of a bike?
In my state the laws state that I'm not required to wear a helmet while operating one of my bikes on a public highway.
That being the case, why should I be required to wear a helmet in a "helmet mandatory state" if I'm just passing through, since it isn't required in my home state where my bike is registered?
I know, I know, that's a different situation altogether...