Three decades of service as soldier, commander, LOD Investigating Officer, observer, whatever. Only seen a couple of LOD-No determinations and they weren't for anything remotely like this. While it is possible it could happen I just can't see a commander making a determination that harms the family, surviving spouse and kids.

 

With the spate of fatalities and the emphasis on this issue you can bet they will start making examples of those that choose to ignore the rules. Not worth risking it to me. I also have over 30 years of service and have never seen the focus motorcyclists are now getting.

 

I think the DOD is over-regulatory on motorcycle riders' protective gear, personally. I've heard the justification about the motorcycle fatalities - but what about automobile fatalities? I'd be surprised if biker deaths/accidents outnumbered car deaths/accidents by DOD employees. Why aren't we required to wear helmets when driving? Required to take refresher driver's ed?

In reality, just like most motorcycle laws, we are paying up for the (mostly) idiotic few that ruin it for the rest of us (young sportbike riders, I'm talking about you) with dumb riding habits.

 

Actually there were 33 motorcycle related deaths in the Navy this year as compared to 30 4 wheeled deaths in Fiscal year 08 (01 Oct 07 - 30 Sep 08 located here http://www.safetycenter.navy.mil/sta...cle/tables.htm ). When you look at this data and compare it to the Navy's new traffic instruction 5100.12H and under motorcycles, we are no longer required to wear brightly colored clothing during day light hours, however it is "highly encouraged" reflective clothing must be worn during the night time hours. It does not state a minimum area of reflective material, it does not have to be brightly colored, and does not have to be a vest, so if you have reflective material on you at night, under this instruction you are covered.

Just remember though, each base can make up more restrictive rules, and so can your CO. They can make you wear reflective material that is brightly colored all the time, so check your base and command instructions, if they have none, then you fall under OPNAVINST 5100.12H which is what I wrote about above.

 

Thanks for the data - still seems negligible to me (at least in a pure numbers game - I'm sure there are all sorts of factors that can be looked at).

Being an officer, I'm really pulled in two directions on this. My personal belief (beyond just motorcycle regs) is that we should treat people like adults and they will either learn from their mistakes or not be around to make them anymore (one way or another). However, I have a responsibility to not only adhere to the regs, but enforce/endorse.

I'm lucky that my base doesn't go beyond the AF/MAJCOM requirements for riders. Since coming onto active duty, I've had a handful of Airmen do stupid things on bikes - no amount of protective gear requirements, briefings, classes, etc. is going to prevent dumb people from doing dumb things. Just my opinion.

 

If this babysitting attitude is prudent, why not mandate roll cages and fireproof suits in cars, floaties while surfing, eye wear while working at home, steel toed boots for mowing your yard, baby gates at the top of stairs....etc.

No commander cares about "actual safety". They care about the "appearance of safety"...otherwise I wouldn't be allowed to drive home after 36 hrs of duty/work.

It's all about CYA.

 

Your comments appear to indicate you will never make it to command. If you do it will be interesting to see if you still feel this way while in command.

 

The Military, and the American people, have a huge investment in every service member. Training alone can add up to millions in a few years.

What possible harm can come from wearing a vest?

I wonder if the same folks who say a helmet can increase your injuries will say a vest will increase your chance of having an accident?

Military motorcycle riders are already in the high risk group for bike fatalities - age 18-25. Add to that inexpensive 600-1100 CC 200 mph capable motorcycles and you can see why commanders are trying to protect the force.

I taught the MSF course at Ft Carson, Hunter AAF (Savannah) and in Korea. During that time, the regs for having to wear the vest came out. We put the vest on. Did not diminish my enjoyment at all. In fact, I felt naked without it in Savannah. I still wear it at night, and anytime visibility is diminished like rain or fog. If I rode to work I would wear it so the lady putting on her makeup might have a better chance of seeing me sitting at the red light.

Go to a running store and pick up a light weight hunter orange and lime green reflective vest. Even the base clothing sales store has them. Or, you can have one custom made to your liking here: http://www.conspicuity.us/vests.htm.

As for LOD, I never saw a LOD go against the soldier unless he or she was drunk or awol, or in some way committing a serious offense. Even felony speeding never resulted in LOD-No in my experience. But I've been out 12 years.

As soldiers, we give up a little of the freedoms we are sworn to defend. If following simple orders like wearing a vest is so appalling to you, go back to McDonalds and flip burgers.

I don't believe I said that...

Sergeant Major, USA (Ret)

 

It's funny to see some guys pull over before they get the the base and put on their helmet, or boots, or gloves, or long sleeves, and/or reflective vest. Then they reverse the process when they get off the base. That traffic on base is not that deadly.is it?

 

Actually driving/riding on base is very refreshing , less of the "me 1st attitude" , more relaxed as people actually come to full stops and generally MUCH less aggressive driing .... while within the gates , outside , your experience with service memebers and dependents may vary.