Differences between Dynas and Softail Standard/Night Train?
#51
10-31-2007, 09:51 PM
RE: Differences between Dynas and Softail Standard/Night Train?
ORIGINAL: Herr Monk
I do have a question though... Is there any reason Harley couldn't/wouldn't build a rubber mounted softail? Is there something about that suspension that demands the counterbalance?
I do have a question though... Is there any reason Harley couldn't/wouldn't build a rubber mounted softail? Is there something about that suspension that demands the counterbalance?
#52
10-31-2007, 10:00 PM
RE: Differences between Dynas and Softail Standard/Night Train?
ORIGINAL: bfrmbama
I've always wanted to ask this question.....
ORIGINAL: Herr Monk
I do have a question though... Is there any reason Harley couldn't/wouldn't build a rubber mounted softail? Is there something about that suspension that demands the counterbalance?
I do have a question though... Is there any reason Harley couldn't/wouldn't build a rubber mounted softail? Is there something about that suspension that demands the counterbalance?
#53
10-31-2007, 10:05 PM
RE: Differences between Dynas and Softail Standard/Night Train?
The rigid mount in the Softail is necessary to maintain both torsional and logitudinal stiffness in teh frame. The performance of the frame would be siginifantly compromised without it. Think of the Softail frame without the rear and then consider the stress/load on it.
But, obviously, it works, very well. It's conterbalanced (almost) perfectly and the frame remains perfectly stable throughout all performance variables.
But, obviously, it works, very well. It's conterbalanced (almost) perfectly and the frame remains perfectly stable throughout all performance variables.
#54
10-31-2007, 10:11 PM
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RE: Differences between Dynas and Softail Standard/Night Train?
i own a street bob and i love the way it looks with the 11 inch black shocks and black motor i droolover my bike when i see it and cant believe i own it... but when i go to the dealer i dool over the road king, night train, and pewter denim street glide... money was no issue when i got my bike and i went with the bob. but thats just me
#55
10-31-2007, 10:12 PM
RE: Differences between Dynas and Softail Standard/Night Train?
ORIGINAL: faber
The rigid mount in the Softail is necessary to maintain both torsional and logitudinal stiffness in teh frame. The performance of the frame would be siginifantly compromised without it. Think of the Softail frame without the rear and then consider the stress/load on it.
But, obviously, it works, very well. It's conterbalanced (almost) perfectly and the frame remains perfectly stable throughout all performance variables.
The rigid mount in the Softail is necessary to maintain both torsional and logitudinal stiffness in teh frame. The performance of the frame would be siginifantly compromised without it. Think of the Softail frame without the rear and then consider the stress/load on it.
But, obviously, it works, very well. It's conterbalanced (almost) perfectly and the frame remains perfectly stable throughout all performance variables.
Thanks for the info!
#56
11-01-2007, 01:47 AM
RE: Differences between Dynas and Softail Standard/Night Train?
Yup. The Softail *needs* the rigid mount. (Other non-H-D bikes have gone this design route, too, but for different reasons.)
The Softail frame is essentially a two-piece frame, connected at the "hidden" suspension. The rigid-mount engine allows them to achieve a sufficiently stiff main/forward frame (so that the rear and the fork can mount to it), while keping it light. Without rigid-mounting the engine, the frame would have to be A LOT heavier. Keep in mind, though, that making an engine structural, which is what this is, will not work with all engine designs. But with the H-D version of the V-Twin, it works.
The trick to this design is to conterbalance properly in a way that is effective through (most) of the powerband, to deal with the engine vibration rather than sending it through the whole frame. H-D has managed to do this very, very well with the Softail.
But, H-D will be the first to admit that a frame like this is not intended for performance but for road vibration absorbtion and cruising. In certain performance scenarios, a Softail will twist torsionally. If you want to go on a track or do some high-speed canyon grinding, take a Dyna (or a Gixxer). For cruising the slab or bar-hopping, the Softail is in its element.
I bet if you search the net or H-D literature, you can find pics of Softail frames and you could compare them to Dyna/Sportster frame. (The Dyna frame is essentially a stretched Sportster frame, with minor modifications as appropriate.)
Cheers
The Softail frame is essentially a two-piece frame, connected at the "hidden" suspension. The rigid-mount engine allows them to achieve a sufficiently stiff main/forward frame (so that the rear and the fork can mount to it), while keping it light. Without rigid-mounting the engine, the frame would have to be A LOT heavier. Keep in mind, though, that making an engine structural, which is what this is, will not work with all engine designs. But with the H-D version of the V-Twin, it works.
The trick to this design is to conterbalance properly in a way that is effective through (most) of the powerband, to deal with the engine vibration rather than sending it through the whole frame. H-D has managed to do this very, very well with the Softail.
But, H-D will be the first to admit that a frame like this is not intended for performance but for road vibration absorbtion and cruising. In certain performance scenarios, a Softail will twist torsionally. If you want to go on a track or do some high-speed canyon grinding, take a Dyna (or a Gixxer). For cruising the slab or bar-hopping, the Softail is in its element.
I bet if you search the net or H-D literature, you can find pics of Softail frames and you could compare them to Dyna/Sportster frame. (The Dyna frame is essentially a stretched Sportster frame, with minor modifications as appropriate.)
Cheers
#57
11-01-2007, 07:24 AM
RE: Differences between Dynas and Softail Standard/Night Train?
ORIGINAL: bfrmbama
I guess my real question is why can't you have a rubber-mounted, counterbalanced engine?
ORIGINAL: bfrmbama
I've always wanted to ask this question.....
ORIGINAL: Herr Monk
I do have a question though... Is there any reason Harley couldn't/wouldn't build a rubber mounted softail? Is there something about that suspension that demands the counterbalance?
I do have a question though... Is there any reason Harley couldn't/wouldn't build a rubber mounted softail? Is there something about that suspension that demands the counterbalance?
#58
11-01-2007, 10:30 AM
RE: Differences between Dynas and Softail Standard/Night Train?
So all those custums you see in the magazines that are softail, are they counterbalanced too? Or is it the specific HD design for the softies that requires this?...
Actually for all I know those are just empty engine cases... those things don't look like they do much moving....
Actually for all I know those are just empty engine cases... those things don't look like they do much moving....
#59
11-01-2007, 11:33 AM
RE: Differences between Dynas and Softail Standard/Night Train?
In the magazines...
Well, maybe some of what you are seeing are hardtails: when the two principal lateral frame members converge at the point of the rear axle and there is no suspension in the rear. This has been the typical approach for custom bikes, because it was simpler to design and execute in a simple shop than suspended frames. After a few decades of that, it just became the custom "look." This is what H-D was after when they designed the Softail--a custom hardtail look with a hidden suspension.
But, people also customize H-D frames all the time. Chop, stretch, etc. And there surely are non-OEM softail-like frames out there for the custom industry.
Well, maybe some of what you are seeing are hardtails: when the two principal lateral frame members converge at the point of the rear axle and there is no suspension in the rear. This has been the typical approach for custom bikes, because it was simpler to design and execute in a simple shop than suspended frames. After a few decades of that, it just became the custom "look." This is what H-D was after when they designed the Softail--a custom hardtail look with a hidden suspension.
But, people also customize H-D frames all the time. Chop, stretch, etc. And there surely are non-OEM softail-like frames out there for the custom industry.
#60
11-01-2007, 11:35 AM
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RE: Differences between Dynas and Softail Standard/Night Train?
ORIGINAL: faber
Yup. The Softail *needs* the rigid mount. (Other non-H-D bikes have gone this design route, too, but for different reasons.)
The Softail frame is essentially a two-piece frame, connected at the "hidden" suspension. The rigid-mount engine allows them to achieve a sufficiently stiff main/forward frame (so that the rear and the fork can mount to it), while keping it light. Without rigid-mounting the engine, the frame would have to be A LOT heavier. Keep in mind, though, that making an engine structural, which is what this is, will not work with all engine designs. But with the H-D version of the V-Twin, it works.
The trick to this design is to conterbalance properly in a way that is effective through (most) of the powerband, to deal with the engine vibration rather than sending it through the whole frame. H-D has managed to do this very, very well with the Softail.
But, H-D will be the first to admit that a frame like this is not intended for performance but for road vibration absorbtion and cruising. In certain performance scenarios, a Softail will twist torsionally. If you want to go on a track or do some high-speed canyon grinding, take a Dyna (or a Gixxer). For cruising the slab or bar-hopping, the Softail is in its element.
I bet if you search the net or H-D literature, you can find pics of Softail frames and you could compare them to Dyna/Sportster frame. (The Dyna frame is essentially a stretched Sportster frame, with minor modifications as appropriate.)
Cheers
Yup. The Softail *needs* the rigid mount. (Other non-H-D bikes have gone this design route, too, but for different reasons.)
The Softail frame is essentially a two-piece frame, connected at the "hidden" suspension. The rigid-mount engine allows them to achieve a sufficiently stiff main/forward frame (so that the rear and the fork can mount to it), while keping it light. Without rigid-mounting the engine, the frame would have to be A LOT heavier. Keep in mind, though, that making an engine structural, which is what this is, will not work with all engine designs. But with the H-D version of the V-Twin, it works.
The trick to this design is to conterbalance properly in a way that is effective through (most) of the powerband, to deal with the engine vibration rather than sending it through the whole frame. H-D has managed to do this very, very well with the Softail.
But, H-D will be the first to admit that a frame like this is not intended for performance but for road vibration absorbtion and cruising. In certain performance scenarios, a Softail will twist torsionally. If you want to go on a track or do some high-speed canyon grinding, take a Dyna (or a Gixxer). For cruising the slab or bar-hopping, the Softail is in its element.
I bet if you search the net or H-D literature, you can find pics of Softail frames and you could compare them to Dyna/Sportster frame. (The Dyna frame is essentially a stretched Sportster frame, with minor modifications as appropriate.)
Cheers
I know my Street Bob handeld a lot better in turns than my FXSTC. But the Bob is a Dog in comparison to the comfortof a Softail.Mine NEVER smoothed out at higher RPM's as other posters say, Infact my buddys '08 Bob Vibrates as bad as my '07 Did. Theres nothing like a smooth, comfortable, vibration free
softail ride.Again, its all in the eyes of the rider as to what is and what isnt comfortable. If I wanted a bike to bust around town, carve out turns,and bar hop it wouldnt be my FXSTC . I'd most definatly get a Nightster,,, what a bad Azz lookin machine!