I test rode all of the indians.
They aren't that great.
I spent 2 days at indian demo days 2023 from open to close riding their bikes. Sport Chief was a massive let down, and I went from the SuperChief Limited back to my Fat Boy and sweet dear god the difference was night and day.
The M8 Softail feels precise fast and mean. It feels sporty compared to the Gen2 Chief, which felt anemic, sluggish on the the throttle, and uncomfortable.
When I wide open throttle on the freeway, I want to feel that engine PULL.
Fat Boy did that with stock cam, Gen2 Chiefs did not.

Infact Indians baggers were the first baggers I ever rode even. I was looking around for an old chieftain to see if I could find a cheap one. Then the 24 Street Glide blew em away.
It's not even a contest.
The challenger maybe a good bike but.. i'd take the new street glide over it. Looks better, feels nice, good bars, sounds good.
One of the challengers I rode was even having a problem with it's traction control and I had to tell the demo days guys that the bike was freaking out on throttle.(The other 2 challengers I rode didnt have the issue).

Indian is an alternative for the ego strokers who think they're too good for HD but secretly still want an HD so they buy an indian and pretend it's better than HD to stroke their confirmation bias.
I wouldnt have such a negative opinion of Indian if their bikes were as precise and punchy as HD, and didnt constantly talk **** towards HD.
At leas they're consistant with their past, and they make a good rival for HD.
Troy Herfoss is also a kind person. Cant be mad at him.
Oh absolutely. The concept of build a racing bike, put those parts on the shelf. It's absolutely happening.
My Fat Boy is a testament to that. It has 2 major parts on it BECAUSE of bagger racing.
And people absolutely DO watch the bagger races. They're one of MotoAm's biggest events. So much so they made the stupid mistake of putting Baggers live races behind a paywall.
Which pissed a lot of people off. But MotoAm want that viewership money for Baggers going to their pockets, not youtube's.
Infact this year, Baggers were on stage with MotoGP. Yeap. MotoAm got millions more eyes on Baggers this year because they managed to strike a deal with COTA and MotoGP to get Baggers on the track during the same weekend.
It was pretty ****in cool.

HD quite literally redesigned the new road glide so that it can be better suited to aero for the track. That's where the new fairing and bags came from. No more extended long bags. Now we have aero tested hiked up standard bags. That's all for racing baggers.


I mean if I had the money and means, I'd ABSOLUTELY love to get a 24 street glide, swap the air intake and exhaust, galfer brakes in the front, Ohlins shocks in the rear, and bring it to a track day.
That would be awesome. It'd be a ton of fun. Harleys are making it back to the track because of Baggers.
Bagger Race League is getting bigger and more classes.
Why do you think HD has thrown millions and millions at Screamin Eagle Factory Racing team? For fun? Nah this **** is making them money. It's selling parts and bikes.

So yes, absolutely, Race on Sunday, sell on Monday is happening.

 

Based on what I see on this site, my circle of friends that ride Harleys and the bike groups / bike nights I attend, you're the minority by wanting an aluminum swingarm for an ill handling bike and I still disagree that winning (or losing) on Sunday doesn't affect Harley sales in the showroom, no way no how. Running bikes in the bagger series is publicity but a lot of motorcycle enthusiasts think its stupid. Yes Harley wants to win because its an ego thing, money spent and who doesn't want to win? But its main function is advertising and drawing attention to the HD brand plain and simple. It's not just a commercial for 30 seconds that someone could miss when they take a pee break, its a program. Win or lose it puts the idea in a buyers head that they should go to the dealer not to buy a race bagger because most people dont buy one to carve corners but something to putt around on and feel cool.

 

Interesting diversion to the King of the Baggers stuff, but the days of "win on Sunday, sell on Monday" are loooong gone.

I doubt many here give a rat's *** about what happens on a track with highly-modified racing bikes, they just want a touring motorcycle that works well in the real world.

 

Lets not misrepresent what I said, now.

I said I hope HD brings that high performance swing arm to STOCK new baggers.
I hope they can develop an affordable one that they can mass produce that can be stock standard OEM hardware.
The current swing arm is bad, the frame is not.

And you absolutely cannot disagree that winning at the track is affecting sales in the show room, AND DONT FORGET... the parts desk like I was describing.
The mere existance of those shocks, the 2024 baggers, the SE Camplate and pump. Saying it race on sunday sell on monday isn't happening is pretending none of that exists.
All of it exists because it sells, and it was developed by racing on sunday.
Pure and simple.
The moon is still there even if you dont see it in the sky.
They would not go out of their way to build develop and work on these racing bikes to make absolutely **** all nothing to sell in return. They made these bikes so they can race them, and sell the hardware and models that are winning and making waves.
It's definitely absolutely, 100%, happening.
That's why they're doing it.
People are absolutely going to dealerships, buying bikes, and building racing baggers out of them. This is ABSOLUTELY happening. Bagger Race League shows this. Teams like Tucker Speed(Shout out to Tony!) show this is happening.
This genre of racing straight up did not exist 6+ years ago. Now it's a full fledged expanding category, and you bet your ****ing *** it's selling brand new bikes.

With all due respect, I appreciate when people address the actual wording and concepts that people are talking about and discussing, because not doing so makes the conversation harder and more littered with stuff for people to read and navigate that does little to add to the discussion.

You need to remember that Forums and Reddit, are small snapshots of niche parts of community driven by people who have an urge and want to throw their hat into the discussion.
Most people do not use forums, muchless post on them.
If you want to see what people are doing, you need a bigger picture.

If these bikes arent selling for people to build performance baggers and racing baggers, then why the **** has the category absolutely exploded and become huge money?
Think about it. Anecdotes do very little to inform people of the world.
You need a wider scope.

10 years ago, having a nice riding touring comfy couchy bagger, yeah that's fine. But people were starting to build performance baggers long before KOTB and Bagger Race league came around.
It's not new. There are many people out there who put their necks out to do something unique, and it caught on.
It caught on so well that Indian Motorcycle threw their hat in the ring with a brand new engine platform, a brand new model, based on the performance bagger idea. That is what the challenger was designed for.
To be a sportier performance bagger base to outcompete HD's baggers.
This is no different than Honda releasing the Fury to cash in on that 2000s era chopper craze. They built the fury to look like it'd fit right in at a harley biker ralley/dealership.
This is EXACTLY where the Challenger comes in 2 decades later, so it can fit right in with the performance bagger bros throwing baggers around the track, doing rollers and wheelies, building big power so they can attack twisties and freeways with reckless power and abandon.

People absolutely 100% undeniably have walked into dealerships bought bikes for the sole purpose of building a roaring racing bagger/performance bagger.
The days of touring bikes being only your dad's road sofa is over. Baggers aren't bound by narrow requirements of cushy plush ride anymore.
They can be stunt bikes, race bikes, mile crushers, and more.

Why? Because people wanted to race them.
Now there's a whole god damned industry.
Why do you thing Moonshine HD has gotten into brakes and suspension and all this extra doodads instead of just motors and ergo?
They arent the only one. FuelMoto USA also has performance racing brake kits now, and suspension, and other goodies.
This bagger racing, this performance bagger craze, it's not small.
Just because Ryan Kruesi and Tony Tucker aint posting on the forums here doenst mean it isnt' happening.


I will point out and be fair about the fact that Race on Sunday Sell on Monday in terms of like selling the actual bikes that raced and stuff, sure that really ended before any of us were born.
But the concept is still very much applicable to whats happening in the performance bagger world.

 

I have three harley baggers, So if I were to buy an Indian, it may be an ego stroker to show I am a rebel, it would not be to secretly pretend I want a harley.

I am saying I will consider one, where I would no before. Also I don't care about the things you mentioned. I just want a reliable motorcycle. I've rode a lot of harleys with less power, and been happy, so I am not chasing the fastest bike. I am looking for a new touring bike.

Or I may stay with idea, you just got to replae the harley parts.. Maybe stay with older bikes that I fix up. When I bought my newest bike two years ago I went used, I had a crappy experience with my last new harley. And just didn't think they were worth it. So I bought a used one.

 

OP's thread has been derailed by the master of derailment.

 

Just replying. But what do your posts have to do with the topic of the thread?

 

I'm okay with racing and performance technology being infused into Touring and Sport Touring bikes. I have toured, sometimes two-up on bikes that did not have "performance" frames, forks, swingarms, or suspension. I/we had some interesting moments. I'm more inclined to buy a bike from a company that goes racing and does well.

 

What works well on the track may nt work well on the streets we ride. One primary example is bent rims because of the low profile tired used on the current HD bikes. One more reason I like my "old" 2019 FLHTP.

 

The long winded diatribes “some” are prone to are just as annoying as the useless chatter. My block list is growing!