Formula+ viscoty
#11
07-17-2024, 06:28 AM
While it may be true for huge gear reduction gearboxes that have slow turning gears, a Harley transmission spins the gears fast, and most particles will be in suspension no matter what lube is used.
There are a lot of piston engines in aircraft that do not have oil filters, and they use detergent oil.
If you have contaminates in a gearbox on a Harley you have a problem, and detergent will make no difference.
People have run detergent motor oil in Harley Davidson transmissions for eons without issue.
The following 2 users liked this post by Dan89FLSTC:
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#12
07-17-2024, 06:38 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
You say this all the time, I`m throwing the BS flag.
While it may be true for huge gear reduction gearboxes that have slow turning gears, a Harley transmission spins the gears fast, and most particles will be in suspension no matter what lube is used.
There are a lot of piston engines in aircraft that do not have oil filters, and they use detergent oil.
If you have contaminates in a gearbox on a Harley you have a problem, and detergent will make no difference.
People have run detergent motor oil in Harley Davidson transmissions for eons without issue.
While it may be true for huge gear reduction gearboxes that have slow turning gears, a Harley transmission spins the gears fast, and most particles will be in suspension no matter what lube is used.
There are a lot of piston engines in aircraft that do not have oil filters, and they use detergent oil.
If you have contaminates in a gearbox on a Harley you have a problem, and detergent will make no difference.
People have run detergent motor oil in Harley Davidson transmissions for eons without issue.
However, no telling if they switched back.
And yes, I have owned a few motorcycles that used one oil.
Last edited by Jackie Paper; 07-17-2024 at 06:46 AM.
#13
07-17-2024, 06:40 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
#14
07-17-2024, 07:05 AM
Club Member
Originally Posted by Jackie Paper;[url=tel:21746013
21746013]
Brandon, if you compare Formula + drip count to 90W hypiod gear lube, you will know it's not 90W. Now it does compare to 75W-90 synthetic gear lube made by Mobile 1.
Majority were gear oils.
In my post 6, I called it a gear oil and I used that term loosely since its non detergent since there no filter. I got the 50W from its drip rate being in the range of a 50W motor oil.
Is that wrong?
Brandon, if you compare Formula + drip count to 90W hypiod gear lube, you will know it's not 90W. Now it does compare to 75W-90 synthetic gear lube made by Mobile 1.
- Irrelevant. SAE viscosity grade is determined by kinematic viscosity (cSt, mm2/s) and Brookfield viscosity (cPs, for cold temp) only.
Majority were gear oils.
- I will have to correct myself. In 2019, SAE added three new viscosity grades for gear oil: SAE 65, 70, and 75. They also adjusted the limits of SAE 80 to tighten it up and create distinction between it and SAE 75.
- Yes, I am sure.
In my post 6, I called it a gear oil and I used that term loosely since its non detergent since there no filter. I got the 50W from its drip rate being in the range of a 50W motor oil.
Is that wrong?
- Yes, that is wrong. SAE viscosity grade is determined by kinematic viscosity (cSt, mm2/s) and Brookfield viscosity (cPs, for cold temp) only.
- EVERYTHING is application-dependant. And by application, I mean SPECIFIC application. I do not mean "in a motorcycle transmission, use X"... I mean "In a Harley transmission that uses bevel gears and does not share lubricant with the primary chaincase, use Y". You have to be specific. Some motorcycles may have hypoid gears and you'd need to use hypoid extreme pressure oil in it. Some motorcycle transmissions have soft ("yellow") metals in them, and you DO NOT want to use any extreme pressure additives in them (for instance, don't use hypoid gear oil in a shared trans/primary because the EP additives will corrode the stator).
- You cannot make a blanket statement that says "don't use detergents in a transmission" because there are hundreds of varieties of transmissions. Some have oil baths, some are spray lubricated, some are filtered, some are not, some extreme pressure, some are not, some have wet clutches, some have dry clutches, some have no clutch at all. A "transmission" is not one thing, it can be hundreds of things.
- Any owner's manual I've looked at has always stated HD360 and Formula+ as the recommended fluid, and SYN3 as a suitable alternative. Do you have an example that shows otherwise?
- CVOs are still factory filled with SYN3
- Source?
I will also add that detergents are different than dispersants.
- Detergents control deposit formation - they help PREVENT deposit formation before they occur.
- Dispersants suspend contaminants within the oil
Last edited by BrandonSmith; 07-17-2024 at 08:27 AM.
#15
07-17-2024, 07:10 AM
Club Member
#16
07-17-2024, 07:12 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
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BrandonSmith (07-17-2024)
#17
07-17-2024, 07:52 AM
Club Member
#18
07-17-2024, 07:54 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
It's a straight 50W non detergent gear oil. You don't want detergents added to a lubrication fluid in a transmission or primary that has no filter.
It's better that contaminates settle on bottom.
Might want to consider's synthetic version of Formula + if you ride in the winter and for sure in the hot Southern states.
It's better that contaminates settle on bottom.
Might want to consider's synthetic version of Formula + if you ride in the winter and for sure in the hot Southern states.
I said and you agreed the same things. I just added that it didn't have detergents. One of the requirements that's in my old engeering oil book I have for a no filter box.
I attended a Exon class way back in the 70 when I was supervisor. Part of my responsibilities was making sure we kept up with the oiling of the toolmaker shop machines.
Some of are gear cutting machines and even the Jigboring machines dated from the 40s. They had no filters.
In your chart, witch one in Formula +?
Last edited by Jackie Paper; 07-17-2024 at 08:27 AM.
#19
07-17-2024, 08:04 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
No where did I say that you had to use Formula + in a Harley.
I would not use a hypoid 90W in my however. If someone else wants to, that's fine with me.
On why Harley stopped saying use SYN3 as first choice in owners manuals was my opinion. I assumed they had a reason. They sure are not going to tell you they made a mistake.
But once it started say use SYN 3, sure saw a lot of issues here on the FORUM on primary and transmission issues. That's why I said what I did.
Little help on that W number. So your saying that's not determined by seeing at different temperatures how fast the fluid drips thru a certain size hole?
And don't use those crazy formulas that mean nothing unless you are an oil engineer. What is that W mean in simple terms.
Think for now on in oil threads, I will stick to no more then saying 'Formula + works great year round for me since 2004.'
Maybe then, I won't get the
from North and Dan..
Last edited by Jackie Paper; 07-17-2024 at 08:46 AM.
#20
07-17-2024, 08:13 AM
Club Member