When I wanted to trade my XL883 for a Nightster, it came to a point where I said I had to go home and look at my budget, re-crunch my numbers and think about it. It was THEN that the credit manager walked in (I had been sitting with the salesman), and he said "what will it take for you to do the deal right now", so I told him the maximum I could afford monthly. The end result was he dropped my interest rate 3 points, which brought my payments right to my maximum, and saves me a significant amount in interest over the term of the loan. I have a credit record that is in process of getting "cleaned up", but it's still got some pretty negative stuff on it. My point is, when it was apparent they might lose the sale all together, THEN they got serious about making it work.