Shifting without the clutch
#51
08-09-2007 | 07:53 AM
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,004
Likes: 12
From: Parkton, Maryland
RE: Shifting without the clutch
"BUT trucks are deigned that way. Don't know about HD."
Too bad you got you got it a$$ backwards. Trucks aren't "Built That way" otherwise the clutch pedal would hae "start and stop" printed on it, and HD trannys are better suited for a clutchless shift because they are a "constant mesh", "progressive shift" design. Since I'll assume that you don't KWTF that means, I'll splain it to you.
Constant mesh means that the driveline doesn't completely release one gear before engaging the next. That's why you can't find neutral between anything but 1-2. Also means you can't grind when shifting with or without a clutch, because you're never between gears. Also means you can't release the pressure on these gears without clutching.
Progressive shift means that shifting is accomplished with a mechanism that shifting up or down to the next gear 1-2, 2-3, 3-4 and so on.
Simply put,the HD tranny was built for idiots.
As "davewear" puts it :"because i like to and it's my bike " prety much sums things up.
As Jack Nickelson put it in One flew over the coo-coo's nest "Clowns, everwhere I look, I see clowns"
Too bad you got you got it a$$ backwards. Trucks aren't "Built That way" otherwise the clutch pedal would hae "start and stop" printed on it, and HD trannys are better suited for a clutchless shift because they are a "constant mesh", "progressive shift" design. Since I'll assume that you don't KWTF that means, I'll splain it to you.
Constant mesh means that the driveline doesn't completely release one gear before engaging the next. That's why you can't find neutral between anything but 1-2. Also means you can't grind when shifting with or without a clutch, because you're never between gears. Also means you can't release the pressure on these gears without clutching.
Progressive shift means that shifting is accomplished with a mechanism that shifting up or down to the next gear 1-2, 2-3, 3-4 and so on.
Simply put,the HD tranny was built for idiots.
As "davewear" puts it :"because i like to and it's my bike " prety much sums things up.
As Jack Nickelson put it in One flew over the coo-coo's nest "Clowns, everwhere I look, I see clowns"
#52
08-09-2007 | 10:02 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,359
Likes: 6,558
From: Georgia
RE: Shifting without the clutch
ORIGINAL: Bear64
Well ain't I the dummy, here I thopught you mispelled it..I guess I need to just hush up here if I can't even speel write. I also still use my clutch, my street racing days are over, well almost anyway, but I do use the clutch now, way back when, long before some of you rode, we used to do it quite a bit, match the RPM to the speed..but enough of this about clutchless shifting, lets talk about moth ***** in the gas tank? 
[IMG]local://upfiles/3092/969B5004D44442B8BFBF4C014BE2F155.jpg[/IMG]
ORIGINAL: Unamed
Lol I do both, but I still use my clutch, I know you can match engine rpms to speed to get the gears to mesh and I admit I do it in my jeep when I'm lazy, but what happens when you dont get teh speeds jsut right??? GRRIIIIINNNDDDDD!! you cant tell me that is good for anything, lol.
And you spelled dontchatink wrong, theres no H its "tink" comon man where have you been???
ORIGINAL: Bear64
your so right, but then its like living in the fast lane, or riding 20,000 miles a year?? Can I really do that? but then there are those that do neither--Dontchathink??
[IMG]local://upfiles/3092/CFDFE4D800AF4670BDA5BF595B28D6C6.jpg[/IMG]
ORIGINAL: Unamed
Of course it cuts down wear on the clutch! your not useing it!!!! Sheesh!
Personally, and im no rocket scientist but im sure a few of them have had some input on this over the years. Theres probably a reason that all these vehicles have clutches on them.....Dontchatink?
ORIGINAL: MOSTWANTED
actually in a truck transmision it cuts down on wear and tear on the clutch. Just got to do it without grinding the gears.
edit: Bear64 beat me to the idea.
actually in a truck transmision it cuts down on wear and tear on the clutch. Just got to do it without grinding the gears.
edit: Bear64 beat me to the idea.
Personally, and im no rocket scientist but im sure a few of them have had some input on this over the years. Theres probably a reason that all these vehicles have clutches on them.....Dontchatink?
[IMG]local://upfiles/3092/CFDFE4D800AF4670BDA5BF595B28D6C6.jpg[/IMG]
And you spelled dontchatink wrong, theres no H its "tink" comon man where have you been???
[IMG]local://upfiles/3092/969B5004D44442B8BFBF4C014BE2F155.jpg[/IMG]
#54
08-09-2007 | 11:35 AM
RE: Shifting without the clutch
Learning how to shift without using the clutch is good to know in an emergency. The good thing about a Harley is that you can start it while in gear. I lost the clutch in my VW one time and managed to drive it 300 miles without having any major problem.
#55
08-09-2007 | 12:09 PM
Tourer
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 387
Likes: 266
From: Riverview, FL
RE: Shifting without the clutch
Let me get this right...
You'll rip up your $2000 tranny to save your $200 clutch?
You'll rip up your $2000 tranny to save your $200 clutch?
ORIGINAL: MOSTWANTED
actually in a truck transmision it cuts down on wear and tear on the clutch. Just got to do it without grinding the gears.
edit: Bear64 beat me to the idea.
actually in a truck transmision it cuts down on wear and tear on the clutch. Just got to do it without grinding the gears.
edit: Bear64 beat me to the idea.
#56
08-09-2007 | 12:36 PM
Road Warrior
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,499
Likes: 50
From: nj
RE: Shifting without the clutch
It would help out the 07 trans. maybe the rattling would go away. I sometimes don't use the clutch when just crusing at the right rpm the bike shifts right in. 98 glide 45,000 no problems
#57
08-09-2007 | 01:48 PM
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,424
Likes: 0
From: Hoboken, New Jersey
RE: Shifting without the clutch
I dont do it.....I have seen way too many bent shift forks in my time....now i am not saying the cause of the bent shift forks was shifting w/o the clutch......in fact on all H-D's IIRC and 99% of the jap bikes out there the trans is whats called a "constant mesh" and the VERY BEST way to bend the shift fork(s) is to shift or try to shift it with the engine not running(using the clutch or not)....you can do it with the engine off, but you should rock the bike forward and back a bit. If the gear dogs just so happen to be in a position where they are hitting against each other as the gear is sliding on the shaft, instead of engaging with each other....and you force the shifter the fork will bend.
This is not the case on most cages, and definitely not the case in a trans that uses syncros.
Over the years I have built a few drag bikes....they were all jap bikes, but thats what I was into at the time and what I could wrench on. I have installed a few air shifters, and if I am not mistaken even with the air shifter, where you do not use the clutch the ignition system is cut for the split second while the shift takes place. Like one of the replies said......you can shift w/o the clutch.....as long as there is no load on the trans.
This is not the case on most cages, and definitely not the case in a trans that uses syncros.
Over the years I have built a few drag bikes....they were all jap bikes, but thats what I was into at the time and what I could wrench on. I have installed a few air shifters, and if I am not mistaken even with the air shifter, where you do not use the clutch the ignition system is cut for the split second while the shift takes place. Like one of the replies said......you can shift w/o the clutch.....as long as there is no load on the trans.
#58
08-09-2007 | 05:33 PM
Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 236
Likes: 0
From:
RE: Shifting without the clutch
somebody needs to explain to me the ADVANTAGES of not using the clutch????????? Not a smart thing to do!! If you choose to NOT use a clutch, you must have too much money to waste!!
Be safe riding...
[IMG]local://upfiles/38813/2292460C13BD42358B8C507F63271588.jpg[/IMG]
Be safe riding...
[IMG]local://upfiles/38813/2292460C13BD42358B8C507F63271588.jpg[/IMG]
#59
08-09-2007 | 06:00 PM
Banned
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,145
Likes: 1
From: St.Louis, MO.
RE: Shifting without the clutch
Its like the Jeep thing......."If you don't know ,you'll NEVER understand" So all you guys that keep questioning the practice...its OK keep using your clutch...we won't laugh at ya MUCH [sm=closed.gif]
MUCH [sm=closed.gif]
#60
08-09-2007 | 06:04 PM
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,910
Likes: 2
From: South Fla.
RE: Shifting without the clutch
ORIGINAL: Blackbird
Learning how to shift without using the clutch is good to know in an emergency. The good thing about a Harley is that you can start it while in gear. I lost the clutch in my VW one time and managed to drive it 300 miles without having any major problem.
Learning how to shift without using the clutch is good to know in an emergency. The good thing about a Harley is that you can start it while in gear. I lost the clutch in my VW one time and managed to drive it 300 miles without having any major problem.