BMW was in the same position and they seem to have pulled it off. They should bring some opening price point bikes back from India, if I remember correctly. Unless it's a Union thing. How about an adventure bike that isn't 600lbs that you can pull out of the mud or from between rocks. What about a sport touring bike? A Sportster with a good sized tank and some HP. It doesn't have to compete with an FJ or a Concourse. Hit the niche where it's a sports tourer but you don't get that expensive bump in insurance because of performance or engine size. Just thinking out loud.
There has been a bump in legal trail bikes what about that segment? They were there before. It always seems to be like they dip their toes in the water and then retreat.

 

728 pounds.

 

Because that's not their market. Never has been. Why jump into the BMW market? Harley isn't a trail bike company. Just like BMW isn't a heavyweight cruiser company.

 

The R18 is not selling. The Denver dealer told me they have not sold one. Too heavy and underpowered for BMW core customer

 

On/off road bikes Harley has done before, with AMF, and India would be the place to have them made at a competitive price. This would be a bike that you could jump to a cruiser or their adventure bike. Or a Sportster or Live Wire!!!
That BMW Cruiser is not my taste either. Everyone makes, at one time or another, a fugly bike!!!

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff

Harley could build a bike that weighs 650lbs. Problem is, nobody would buy it. An example was the Switchback. It was the lightest touring bike in its category at 718lbs. It was 94 lbs lighter than a Road King.

Although I generally agree with most of this line of thought, I do have some different angles to consider. I test rode a 2013 Switchback, and thought it was very stable compared to my 2012 Seventy-Two. But even with the 103 (stock) it didn't have the pep that my stage 1 1200 has. Back then, I really wanted a lightweight "bagger". I believe with a Stage 1 it might have had the pep I was used to, and maybe that would have coerced me into trading...very glad I didn't as I would have regretted it.

An issue I keep in mind with the Switchback was that it was approx $2k less than a Roadking. For that price differential, I feel you got much more bike with the RK, to include the extra weight. Fast forward, I have a 2019 FLHCS, that is somewhere in between the price of the SB and RK. It is a lot better as a lightweight "bagger" than the SB ever could dream of, and roughly same weight give or take. I'm not sure how to compare to RK, as I have never ridden one, but I would assume it comes close for touring, but maybe not as good depending on rider preference, but lighter.

The SB failed to deliver as advertised. In reality it was over-priced and Feature-less and compromised in most areas that pertains to it being a touring/bagger It really didn't have an upgraded touring suspension, and no cruise control if I remember correctly. It was plagued by a problematic exhaust that many complained about as well. As most have said H-D missed the mark completely with the SB, and it is a shame as they could have really gotten a lot out of it, if it wasn't such a half-assed attempt by H-D.

They do have a ~650lb touring bike..It's a Heritage, and they sell well I think. ymmv of course

 

Damn! 670 pounds!

 

I did demo the other brands several times over the two years before buying, everything. I said class leading comfort for touring. I am not a Harley fan boy. In fact before demoing the 2020 114 Ultra with RDRS me and my wife were full on predjudiced Harley haters. I had ridden many in the past and thought they sucked ***, loud, slow, poor brakes, chit tech, poor forks, motors that were a joke. Always thought they were pretty but we all made fun of the gay pirates on Harleys as being un-American for supporting a bike that denigrated America with its embarrassing product and made us the laughing stock and ridicule of 90% of the motorcycling public.
Harley has seriously stepped up their game with the current offerings. I still get chit for riding one but we dont give a ***** because it is the most comfortable touring bike for us that is currently being produced.

 

I took an R18 for a demo ride. Buddy of mine was there with his Softail Slim, so I took that for a quick ride afterwards. Harley has nothing to fear from the R18. I just hope Harley does a better job trying to take away the Adventure bike market with the Pan America.

 

That is exactly how anyone will feel after taking one of the Indian Roadmasters for a test ride. Talk about a clunky transmission, terrible ergonomics unless your 6-4 or taller, so much heat coming from that motor that even when riding in 50 degree weather I don't know why they bother with a heated seat. Most of the items feel like flimsy cheap plastic. The the breaks are weak. They talk a good game and produce good promotional materials, but just go ride one and see how you feel about it, I don't think any serious rider comparing them back to back would choose the Indian Roadmaster over the Ultra Limited. Sure it's got the cheesy adjustable windshield, but once you find a height that works you leave it alone. Of course, I haven't found a height that worked with either their regular, or they're touring shield and I have ridden them 8 or more times.

I think the Pan American has a great chance to be very successful.