LOUD PIPES RUIN LIVES!
#271
01-08-2008 | 11:07 PM
Banned
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,485
Likes: 0
RE: LOUD PIPES RUIN LIVES!
[quote]ORIGINAL: tda69
[quote]ORIGINAL: TM
I get that you are making a whole butt load of assumptions based on theory that you cannot prove. That's what I get. Until you actually get out there and do the leg work, assimilate the data and study it, your just espousing your own theory as to why there is a recent surge in noise abate legislation. Nothing more.
You say that your theory is fairly obvious. Yes it would be if the ratio of riders riding with loud pipes is at least equal to or greater than those that do not. That ratio would support the notion that most complaints do in fact originate because of folks with loud pipes doing things they shouldn't. The fact is that you don't know that and there is no data to prove it.
Its just as obvious to me that common sense would tell you that there is no way to make the assumption that you do based on the information that you have. Common sense would also tell me that the number of riders that do in fact run with, straight pipes, drag pipes etc. is a considerably smaller group and that a very high percentage of that small group are having complaints filed against them.Yes the complaints exist but you nor can anyone else attribute the majority of those complaints to folks with excessively loud pipes or riders acting like fools vs. anyone else. Its nothing more than speculation.
How many complaints does it take for it toget into the "excessive" category? In other words how many complaints does it take before a specific community will demand a change in the law. A city councilman that has a sensitive ear and wants a change, an older gentleman that is easily annoyed by noise, 200 people c
[quote]ORIGINAL: TM
ORIGINAL: tda69
TM-
For all your effort in trying to elaborate, you miss the point entirely. This is very simple. 90% of the folks here get it. You must really not understand, oryou refuse to acknowledge my point, I'm really not sure. Take Donny Lee for example, initially he thought I was against pipes and that I was making pipes the issue. I am not. He understands that now. Irntowrench said it perfectly. He also understands the issue. It's irresponsiblepeople that are the problem. Can you and I agree on that? If yes, then at least we have some common ground here. Your point is that noise is subjective and may bother some people more than others. To some, a stock bike exhaust may be offensive, whereas another person may have a much higher tolerance or threshold for a modified exhaust. So, we can both agree on that to. That's 2 for 2...so let's see if we can go 3 for 3, but before I we do, let's address one important fact first. FACT...some riders are flagrantly obnoxious to the point of CREATING excessive noise. I defined them as Group B. They exist. They may not be you, me or 90% of the people who've read this post, but they do exist. Yet, there's no statistical information or data kept on them. However, the mere absence of the data you seekdoesn't change the fact that theyexist. The specific examples, data and side by side comparison's between stock versus modified exhaust and percentages is completely irrelevant. Thecomplaint's exists,the laws exist, the tickets that are being handed out exist and so do the fines that are being paid. As far as the public isconcerned, we mayall be Group B riders. Which leads me to my point of why we need to be more conscience and try to keep noise levels to a minimum.Also, I'm not going to spend countless hours on the internet researching statistical datafor you in order to try and convince you of something that should befairly obvious.
If this doesn't help you understand, I don't know what will. Hopefully you get it now and see the bigger picture.
TM-
For all your effort in trying to elaborate, you miss the point entirely. This is very simple. 90% of the folks here get it. You must really not understand, oryou refuse to acknowledge my point, I'm really not sure. Take Donny Lee for example, initially he thought I was against pipes and that I was making pipes the issue. I am not. He understands that now. Irntowrench said it perfectly. He also understands the issue. It's irresponsiblepeople that are the problem. Can you and I agree on that? If yes, then at least we have some common ground here. Your point is that noise is subjective and may bother some people more than others. To some, a stock bike exhaust may be offensive, whereas another person may have a much higher tolerance or threshold for a modified exhaust. So, we can both agree on that to. That's 2 for 2...so let's see if we can go 3 for 3, but before I we do, let's address one important fact first. FACT...some riders are flagrantly obnoxious to the point of CREATING excessive noise. I defined them as Group B. They exist. They may not be you, me or 90% of the people who've read this post, but they do exist. Yet, there's no statistical information or data kept on them. However, the mere absence of the data you seekdoesn't change the fact that theyexist. The specific examples, data and side by side comparison's between stock versus modified exhaust and percentages is completely irrelevant. Thecomplaint's exists,the laws exist, the tickets that are being handed out exist and so do the fines that are being paid. As far as the public isconcerned, we mayall be Group B riders. Which leads me to my point of why we need to be more conscience and try to keep noise levels to a minimum.Also, I'm not going to spend countless hours on the internet researching statistical datafor you in order to try and convince you of something that should befairly obvious.
If this doesn't help you understand, I don't know what will. Hopefully you get it now and see the bigger picture.
You say that your theory is fairly obvious. Yes it would be if the ratio of riders riding with loud pipes is at least equal to or greater than those that do not. That ratio would support the notion that most complaints do in fact originate because of folks with loud pipes doing things they shouldn't. The fact is that you don't know that and there is no data to prove it.
Its just as obvious to me that common sense would tell you that there is no way to make the assumption that you do based on the information that you have. Common sense would also tell me that the number of riders that do in fact run with, straight pipes, drag pipes etc. is a considerably smaller group and that a very high percentage of that small group are having complaints filed against them.Yes the complaints exist but you nor can anyone else attribute the majority of those complaints to folks with excessively loud pipes or riders acting like fools vs. anyone else. Its nothing more than speculation.
How many complaints does it take for it toget into the "excessive" category? In other words how many complaints does it take before a specific community will demand a change in the law. A city councilman that has a sensitive ear and wants a change, an older gentleman that is easily annoyed by noise, 200 people c
#276
01-09-2008 | 12:50 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 8,104
Likes: 1,931
From: Ottawa, CANADA
RE: LOUD PIPES RUIN LIVES!
I can't believe this f**kin thread is STILL going... pages and pages of "blah, blah, FU*KING BLAH! [sm=lame.gif][sm=violin.gif]
Loud pipes don't ruin lives, condescending ********* do.
Someone put this **** to bed already! PLEASE!
Cheers!
[sm=icon_rock.gif][sm=icon_rock.gif][sm=icon_rock.gif]
Loud pipes don't ruin lives, condescending ********* do.
Someone put this **** to bed already! PLEASE!
Cheers!
[sm=icon_rock.gif][sm=icon_rock.gif][sm=icon_rock.gif]
#277
01-09-2008 | 01:56 AM
Thread Starter
|
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,272
Likes: 81
From: Southern California
RE: LOUD PIPES RUIN LIVES!
[quote]ORIGINAL: TM
[quote]ORIGINAL: tda69
[quote]ORIGINAL: TM
I get that you are making a whole butt load of assumptions based on theory that you cannot prove. That's what I get. Until you actually get out there and do the leg work, assimilate the data and study it, your just espousing your own theory as to why there is a recent surge in noise abate legislation. Nothing more.
You say that your theory is fairly obvious. Yes it would be if the ratio of riders riding with loud pipes is at least equal to or greater than those that do not. That ratio would support the notion that most complaints do in fact originate because of folks with loud pipes doing things they shouldn't. The fact is that you don't know that and there is no data to prove it.
Its just as obvious to me that common sense would tell you that there is no way to make the assumption that you do based on the information that you have. Common sense would also tell me that the number of riders that do in fact run with, straight pipes, drag pipes etc. is a considerably smaller group and that a very high percentage of that small group are having complaints filed against them.Yes the complaints exist but you nor can anyone else attribute the majority of those complaints to folks with excessively loud pipes or riders acting like fools vs. anyone else. Its nothing more than speculation.
How many complaints does it take for it toget into the "excessive" category? In other words how many complaints does it take before a specific community will demand a change in the law. A city councilman that has a sensitive ear and wants a change, an older gentleman that is easily annoy
[quote]ORIGINAL: tda69
[quote]ORIGINAL: TM
ORIGINAL: tda69
TM-
For all your effort in trying to elaborate, you miss the point entirely. This is very simple. 90% of the folks here get it. You must really not understand, oryou refuse to acknowledge my point, I'm really not sure. Take Donny Lee for example, initially he thought I was against pipes and that I was making pipes the issue. I am not. He understands that now. Irntowrench said it perfectly. He also understands the issue. It's irresponsiblepeople that are the problem. Can you and I agree on that? If yes, then at least we have some common ground here. Your point is that noise is subjective and may bother some people more than others. To some, a stock bike exhaust may be offensive, whereas another person may have a much higher tolerance or threshold for a modified exhaust. So, we can both agree on that to. That's 2 for 2...so let's see if we can go 3 for 3, but before I we do, let's address one important fact first. FACT...some riders are flagrantly obnoxious to the point of CREATING excessive noise. I defined them as Group B. They exist. They may not be you, me or 90% of the people who've read this post, but they do exist. Yet, there's no statistical information or data kept on them. However, the mere absence of the data you seekdoesn't change the fact that theyexist. The specific examples, data and side by side comparison's between stock versus modified exhaust and percentages is completely irrelevant. Thecomplaint's exists,the laws exist, the tickets that are being handed out exist and so do the fines that are being paid. As far as the public isconcerned, we mayall be Group B riders. Which leads me to my point of why we need to be more conscience and try to keep noise levels to a minimum.Also, I'm not going to spend countless hours on the internet researching statistical datafor you in order to try and convince you of something that should befairly obvious.
If this doesn't help you understand, I don't know what will. Hopefully you get it now and see the bigger picture.
TM-
For all your effort in trying to elaborate, you miss the point entirely. This is very simple. 90% of the folks here get it. You must really not understand, oryou refuse to acknowledge my point, I'm really not sure. Take Donny Lee for example, initially he thought I was against pipes and that I was making pipes the issue. I am not. He understands that now. Irntowrench said it perfectly. He also understands the issue. It's irresponsiblepeople that are the problem. Can you and I agree on that? If yes, then at least we have some common ground here. Your point is that noise is subjective and may bother some people more than others. To some, a stock bike exhaust may be offensive, whereas another person may have a much higher tolerance or threshold for a modified exhaust. So, we can both agree on that to. That's 2 for 2...so let's see if we can go 3 for 3, but before I we do, let's address one important fact first. FACT...some riders are flagrantly obnoxious to the point of CREATING excessive noise. I defined them as Group B. They exist. They may not be you, me or 90% of the people who've read this post, but they do exist. Yet, there's no statistical information or data kept on them. However, the mere absence of the data you seekdoesn't change the fact that theyexist. The specific examples, data and side by side comparison's between stock versus modified exhaust and percentages is completely irrelevant. Thecomplaint's exists,the laws exist, the tickets that are being handed out exist and so do the fines that are being paid. As far as the public isconcerned, we mayall be Group B riders. Which leads me to my point of why we need to be more conscience and try to keep noise levels to a minimum.Also, I'm not going to spend countless hours on the internet researching statistical datafor you in order to try and convince you of something that should befairly obvious.
If this doesn't help you understand, I don't know what will. Hopefully you get it now and see the bigger picture.
You say that your theory is fairly obvious. Yes it would be if the ratio of riders riding with loud pipes is at least equal to or greater than those that do not. That ratio would support the notion that most complaints do in fact originate because of folks with loud pipes doing things they shouldn't. The fact is that you don't know that and there is no data to prove it.
Its just as obvious to me that common sense would tell you that there is no way to make the assumption that you do based on the information that you have. Common sense would also tell me that the number of riders that do in fact run with, straight pipes, drag pipes etc. is a considerably smaller group and that a very high percentage of that small group are having complaints filed against them.Yes the complaints exist but you nor can anyone else attribute the majority of those complaints to folks with excessively loud pipes or riders acting like fools vs. anyone else. Its nothing more than speculation.
How many complaints does it take for it toget into the "excessive" category? In other words how many complaints does it take before a specific community will demand a change in the law. A city councilman that has a sensitive ear and wants a change, an older gentleman that is easily annoy
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