Harley Davidson Pan America -final form
#411
12-06-2020, 10:11 AM
Club Member
Lol... Agreed. But I'm sure it works for some people.
Personally, I spend more time doing maintenance and tinkering than actually riding. Maybe that's an exaggeration, but I really enjoy spending time working on my bike. It's therapeutic.
Lastly, if the reason for the chain hate is because of time wasted, maybe you need to revaluate your priorities. If five minutes of your time is too much to share, maybe you're doing to much in life. Enjoy the simple things.
My theory anyways.
It's cool watching/reading why people like/dislike certain things, and what they find valuable to them. I'm glad we're all different. Makes life more enjoyable.
Edit: "share" was a typo, it was meant to be spare... But now that I've read it, I think share is more appropriate. Sharing your time with your bike is a good thing. 👍
Personally, I spend more time doing maintenance and tinkering than actually riding. Maybe that's an exaggeration, but I really enjoy spending time working on my bike. It's therapeutic.
Lastly, if the reason for the chain hate is because of time wasted, maybe you need to revaluate your priorities. If five minutes of your time is too much to share, maybe you're doing to much in life. Enjoy the simple things.
My theory anyways.
It's cool watching/reading why people like/dislike certain things, and what they find valuable to them. I'm glad we're all different. Makes life more enjoyable.
Edit: "share" was a typo, it was meant to be spare... But now that I've read it, I think share is more appropriate. Sharing your time with your bike is a good thing. 👍
#412
12-06-2020, 12:40 PM
At the local HD dealer yesterday. He also has the full line of BMW's in stock. The ONLY ADV Beemer that has the shaft drive is the 1250. All others are chain drive. A belt is great for on the highway, but grab a rock between belt and pulley, and you will wish you had a chain.
I will say, I absolutely LOVE the ease of rear tire removal on that shaft drive. Just like on a car. Now THAT is something they could all work towards. Seems to me, there is no reason even belt or chain drives could not be designed the same way. Sure it means a single swingarm assembly, but HD was designing from the ground up anyway.
That 1250 GS, to me, looks HUGE. I sat on a 1250RT (I think that was the model) a sport touring version, and being the giant of 5'6" that I am, I was on my tippy toes. Pretty sure the GS is taller. By the way, that dealer has three bmw models for demo rides, and the 1250GS is one of em. Not for me though. Just too big of a machine. Its not the weight, but size. That thing looks like it would weigh what my Ultra does. Too tall and bulky for this old man.
I think my off road adventures in the future will be on, most likely, a DR650, thats been "adjusted" to suit me. Its a little tall too, but at 360 lbs its plenty for off roading. I have no plans for cross country trips with a bike like that, although many have, with it and the KLR as well. Suits me, sir cooled, carb'd and simple to maintain. All the electronics on these new ADV bikes is trouble looking for a far away place to happen, IMHO.
I will say, I absolutely LOVE the ease of rear tire removal on that shaft drive. Just like on a car. Now THAT is something they could all work towards. Seems to me, there is no reason even belt or chain drives could not be designed the same way. Sure it means a single swingarm assembly, but HD was designing from the ground up anyway.
That 1250 GS, to me, looks HUGE. I sat on a 1250RT (I think that was the model) a sport touring version, and being the giant of 5'6" that I am, I was on my tippy toes. Pretty sure the GS is taller. By the way, that dealer has three bmw models for demo rides, and the 1250GS is one of em. Not for me though. Just too big of a machine. Its not the weight, but size. That thing looks like it would weigh what my Ultra does. Too tall and bulky for this old man.
I think my off road adventures in the future will be on, most likely, a DR650, thats been "adjusted" to suit me. Its a little tall too, but at 360 lbs its plenty for off roading. I have no plans for cross country trips with a bike like that, although many have, with it and the KLR as well. Suits me, sir cooled, carb'd and simple to maintain. All the electronics on these new ADV bikes is trouble looking for a far away place to happen, IMHO.
The following 3 users liked this post by handirifle:
#413
12-06-2020, 12:59 PM
I don't get the fear of the chain thing at all. Ducati, KTM, Honda, among others use a chain for their big ADV bike. BMW was universally panned for their "flaming" final drives.
In my mind, the last thing an adventure bike needs is a complicated drivetrain. Keep it simple. My FJ09 has a chain and I simply lube it up and wipe it down every 500 miles. Takes me all of a minute while the bike is idling to warm up (back tire spins in neutral because it's cold). The bike has about 7000 miles on it and the chain and sprockets look great. I doubt it will need to be replaced until maybe 20K miles. Then it will take me an hour. And yes, I could do it in a parking lot if necessary, but I'll stick to preventative maintenance and do it well before the failure point.
As far as the knobbies - that's just marketing and an attempt to make it look like a legit contender in the adventure market. You're not going to see many PAs on the road with knobbies.
In my mind, the last thing an adventure bike needs is a complicated drivetrain. Keep it simple. My FJ09 has a chain and I simply lube it up and wipe it down every 500 miles. Takes me all of a minute while the bike is idling to warm up (back tire spins in neutral because it's cold). The bike has about 7000 miles on it and the chain and sprockets look great. I doubt it will need to be replaced until maybe 20K miles. Then it will take me an hour. And yes, I could do it in a parking lot if necessary, but I'll stick to preventative maintenance and do it well before the failure point.
As far as the knobbies - that's just marketing and an attempt to make it look like a legit contender in the adventure market. You're not going to see many PAs on the road with knobbies.
Modern O-Ring chains are pretty easy to take care of. Squirt a little lube on them every two or three tanks of gas, use a chain cleaning brush every other time you lube them. After 10,000-20,000 miles replace the chain and maybe the sprockets. If you don't want to mess with lubing it, get a Scotts oiler. Easy to replace a chain, they don't take up that much space if you want to carry a spare on a long adventure. With a center stand on the bike and a couple wrenches you can fix it anywhere. Can't say that about a shaft drive. And google "BMW Shaft Drive Failure" Sounds like it happens way more than belts breaking on a Harley.
As for the tires, I expect 2 versions of the PA. One with cast wheels and 80/20 street/dirt tires and one with spoked wheels we a more knobby tire. But just like most of the other adventure bikes out there, most of them will be used mostly on the street.
#415
12-06-2020, 02:19 PM
Are you talking about the rear axle? The one bolt? If so, then that means messing with chain and brake caliper. At least from what I can see online. I was talking about tire changes. Not defending the bmw, but I think it sure seems a lot simpler to remove the wheel bolts and you are done.
Also the "word" is that the final drive issues were cured in the 1250 model. Never owned or ridden one, but thats what I read, somewhere. Hey if its on the internet, then its true right? Lol.
Also the "word" is that the final drive issues were cured in the 1250 model. Never owned or ridden one, but thats what I read, somewhere. Hey if its on the internet, then its true right? Lol.
#418
12-06-2020, 02:41 PM
Not knocking the ktm, like the beemer, never owned or ridden one, but I have owned many chain drive bikes and it pretty much has never changed. KTM might have made it a LITTLE easier, but from what I saw, you could take the rear wheel and tire off that 1250 faster than most can remove a front wheel. No axles to pull, no spacers to lose or get dirt in, and no caliper to move around.
That vid was only showing adjusting the chain. I was referring to R & R the rear wheel. A chain drive bike is still more work, in my opinion. Would I want a shaft drive "off road" probably not.
When properly maintained, chains are crazy reliable, and I prefer them, but just saying the beemer rear wheel removal is easy. Period.
That vid was only showing adjusting the chain. I was referring to R & R the rear wheel. A chain drive bike is still more work, in my opinion. Would I want a shaft drive "off road" probably not.
When properly maintained, chains are crazy reliable, and I prefer them, but just saying the beemer rear wheel removal is easy. Period.
#420
12-06-2020, 03:39 PM
The chain haters here must be thinking of the plain roller chains that we used to use back in the 1970s and before. O Ring chains completely changed the game.
The best "lube" for O Ring chains is something that doesn't attract dirt, like Maxima Chain Wax; keeping them clean also helps.
Shaft drive is nice but you have the un-sprung weight of the shaft, shaft housing, and final drive unit. If you're trying to go fast over rough terrain, that's not a good thing.
Compared to shaft and belt drives, a chain is a lot easier to repair or replace on the roadside or in a parking lot. I still have a Motion Pro chain repair/replace tool kit.
The best "lube" for O Ring chains is something that doesn't attract dirt, like Maxima Chain Wax; keeping them clean also helps.
Shaft drive is nice but you have the un-sprung weight of the shaft, shaft housing, and final drive unit. If you're trying to go fast over rough terrain, that's not a good thing.
Compared to shaft and belt drives, a chain is a lot easier to repair or replace on the roadside or in a parking lot. I still have a Motion Pro chain repair/replace tool kit.