Well, I am the un-experienced rider and I do appreciate (very much) the patient expericened rider. I perfere the backroads to the interstates. Cagers just don't have the patience for me on the highway. I enjoy riding just as much as the next person, just at a slower pace right now. I can understand the frustration of the experience rider as my boyfriend must have to count to 1000 when he rides with me. I can also understand his concerns of riding on a busy two lane road with someone like me. I try very hard to ride during the slow traffic times but sometimes that does not even work. We all have to start somewhere. None of us were born running, we all had to crawl before we could walk and then run. I am looking forward to the day when I can grow up and join the group rides that I dream of participating in.

 

Glad to see this thread re-surface. I think the one factor left out of this discussion is to decide what kind of ride it is going to be.
Early last spring a friend bought a bike from a town about 40 miles away. I drove him out in my car and tried to follow him back so that he could set the speed as he hadn't rode in several years. After about a mile, we stopped for gas, since the stealer didn't fill it up. He asked me to lead because it was easier for him and there was less wind. We had the choice of takingg the interstate or old Route 66. I chose Rt. 66 as it was straight and much less traffic (through most of the ride, it actually parallels the Interstate. Started out at 40mph and as he got his riding legs went up to 45. Pulled over several times to allow traffic to pass. About the third stop, he told me I could speed it up some, so I went up to 50-53 mph. We had a nice ride and he was back at home in the saddle by the time we got home.
Anyway, I digressed...What kind of a ride do we want. If we want to take a 50 - 150 mile ride, there is no reason why we can't tailor our ride for the less experienced or those that just don't like to go fast. Particularly if you're going on something like a HOG chapter ride and there maybe 15-25 bikes. There is no reason why the group can't (and shouldn't) be in 2 or 3 groups. Speed demons up front. Speed limit +5-10 in the second group and speed limit - 5-10 in the last group. In my opinion, unless you're on the interstate or in some big ride like RFTW or Trail of Tears. there is no reason for there to be 10 or more bikes together on a 2 lane road.
Now, If you're an experienced rider and like cruising relatively long distances at 75+ mph, there is no room on that ride for beginners, unless someone or more are willing to shepherd them and you meet up at locations.
The problem is that for many of us the only time we get to ride in a group is on weekends when the traffic is often the worst drivers and we want to get out and feel the wind in our face and the freedom of flying down the highway. Great for 2-4 riders who are used to riding together and have similar styles. Terrible for all concerned if it gets to big or the expectations (and abilities) of some are radically different from others.
There's room for all kinds of rides, and in my opinion, we who are experienced enough should partake in all types. It's selfish to not occassionally give back to the biking community by taking time to ride with others.
In re: to the original post, this was a problem ride because expectations were not fully explained. (When someone says that they're afraid of the Interstate and want to take 2 lane roads, you can pretty well count on them not going the speed limit. Just plan to pull over every once in a while and let others pass). On the side of the less experienced, let me say that it is next to impossible to speak up in front of a bunch of bikers and say "uh sorry, but I'm afraid to go that fast and I'm not real sure of myself in corners yet." Perhaps the more experienced ride leaders could ask "What speed do you feel most comfortable riding at?" and then separate larger groups that way.
Personally, I really admire what Skip said and the way he handles it. Skip (in my mind's eye) is a seasoned biker who wouldn't be afraid to ride through Hell at 140 mph, but as a ride leader, he takes the responsibility to be sensitive to the less experienced. He knows that he can ride his own ride any time he wants, that he knows people who like to ride in the same style and that he has nothing to prove. That's the kind of rider I want to be when I grow up! Art

 

Fortunately, my core group of buddies are all very experienced, and do things on a bike that would probably qualify them for the circus. When we ride, it's rarely with any sort of plan in mind, except maybe the general destination. If you want to lead, then lead. We've ridden together long enough that I don't have to worry about where they are, as they've each proven they can ride as well or better than I can.

Occasionally, others will join us. When they do, I make sure to keep an eye on them and stay out of their line of travel. If you don't have the ***** or the ability to ride the speed limit, then sorry but you need to get a dirt bike and stay off the road for a while. You're definitely gonna get left behind by us - way behind. Better bring your cell phone.

 

I have no patience for those who have no patience. Some people (and I'm sure you know who you are), shouldn't opt to do any kind of ride with someone they will have to leave behind or push that person to do something they're not ready to do. You have to ask yourself this question: "Do I want 'em to keep up or Do I do I want 'em in one piece". Riding to keep up at all costs is just stupid! It's dangerous to the driver and to everyone around them, not to mention - no fun at all.

If you can't compromise, make arrangements to meet at a few destinations along the way. When the slower group or person catches up, mingle a little and then move on again. This way everybody is happy.

How hard can it be?

Ride safe!

 

Umm...I might not have communicated my position well enough in the initial post. This was not a formal ride and I was not the "Leader". It was very informal and I was simply the one in front. (I did, however, feel bad about moving on down the road and meeting back up with the others at the next stop.)

When I began riding again after a long absence, I, too, felt nervous about riding much faster than 45-50mph or on certain type roads. As a result of this, I chose my rides very deliberatly as to the time of day, day of the week, route, and duration. If a cage fell in close behind me, I pulled off when I could do so safely and let them pass. If I was invited to ride with some buddies, I was always sure to remind them about the limits of my comfort level during the planning stage prior to the time of the ride.

Riding with friends is fun, and I do enjoy it. I picked up (and still do) some great riding tips from them even when we weren't actually taking a ride. On the days that I couldn't ride, I often read or re-read chapters in motorcycle riding books that explained more about counter-steering, road hazards, proper braking, etc., etc. I know that all sounds kind'a **** to many of you, and it probably is. The point is, however, that I chose to once again involve myself in a recreational activity that can be (is) very dangerous and I felt a resonsibility to lessen the exposure of risk to myself and to those around me. I did this by working hard to develop the KSAs (knowledge, skills, & abilities) necessary to operate a motorcycle safely, or at least, SAFER.

I think new riders (or old riders returning to riding after many years layoff like myself) sometimes may allow themselves to be drawn into a riding activity that is fine for the more experienced rider, but might present serious safety concerns once an inexperienced rider is included to participate. In short, the inexperienced rider is now "over matched" by the ride itself, and the ride will require a level of KSAs not yet achieved by him/her.

I have never riden in a "formal" group ride using road captains and other such organization. However, I have riden in a group as large as 1,500 bikes, and I must say that I didn't enjoy it. It was very stressful, even for a short time, and (I think) full of risk. I would much rather ride solo or with a very small group (4-6) of friends.

I know how important it is to shepard along inexperienced riders. I have personally benefited as an inexperienced rider from those who have taken the time to show and encourage me. However, we must not allow ourselves to be placed at undue risk while out on the road under the guise of mentoring or watching over an inexperienced rider! The inexperienced rider needs to gain experience in a relatively safe environment, don't you think?

 

If you want to follow me then fine, but know your own limitations and don't ride outside them. Simple as that. If you're riding in my group, I'm not going to let you get completely lost, run out of gas or die, but I'm not going to putt around at 45mph while you get your act together either. Deal with it.

On the other hand, female bikers are an entirely different matter. I have a hard time saying no to women, and will go to great lengths to accomodate them - it's a weakness.

 

There's a ride around here that I wanted to go on last year and want to go again this year, but it scares me to death. It is a "Ride for the Cure" event. My wife is a two time cancer survivor and is involved in the walks. Now this ride is only about 45 miles away from me, and is only about 20 miles long, but the thing that scares me is that it has increased in size from 2 dozen riders to 1300 in 4 years. I think that it now takes almost 2 hours to get out of the mall parking lot where it starts. All kinds of bikes, all kinds of riders, interstate to downtown filled w/ traffic not familiar with the city lots of people.
Am i being too cautious here. I doubt that there are ever any serious accidents (haven't been so far), but I also perceive a very high frustration potential and 5-6 bikes getting tangled up in a slow speed area. Art

 

"Am i being too cautious here?"


No, you're not being too cautious. I don't believe there is a thing as "too cautious" when it comes to riding a motorcycle. Its the smart thing to take the time to consider what the risks to you might be and if those risks are acceptable to you or not.

Unfortunatly, in a group ride event as you describe, your riding skills can be severly neutralized and overcome by the lack of riding skills of the other riders around you. Often times, you might not even personally know any of the riders around you, much less familiar with what their skill levels are.

You expressed concerns already regarding traffic and the overall "aggrevation" potential. To me, that's enough reason to pass. Riding should be fun and relaxing, not overly stressful. IMHO