BMW 30% less price than H-D


H-D 30% more now.
This is a problem. At least here in EU. And due this stupid duty war Harley is gonna cost 25%more. Go figure.

 

Having read most of this thread, I may have something to add.

Yes, we baby boomers are dying out. So what? If the reason baby boomers bought Harleys was still valid (or ever was valid) nothing would change - those that come after us would still buy Harleys.

So, just what IS / WAS that reason? One word: American.

Just as as aside, I would be interested to know when Harley stopped saying their products were "made in the U.S.A." Anybody?

Those that came after us do not share our mindset. There's no grinning relative atop a panhead in their memories. Few of them know who James Dean was, but the name might sound familiar...

Those that came after us understand that NOTHING is American, now. We live in a global economy. America is a pretty lie we tell to out kids, along with Santa... Those that came after us inhabit the United Police States, where money talks, and bullshit walks - bullshit like nationalism, patriotism, honesty, altruism; where any cop can order you to drop down on your knees and suck his (!) and then arrest you for failing to obey his lawful order (read your patriot act). Now nice guys finish last and they laugh and laugh at anyone that has any morays.

Take a look around, guys. The drive-in movies (where most of us were conceived) all almost all closed, now. Turn on a radio and you will hear, not rockabilly doo wop, but gangster rap. Buying a Harley is synonymous with the 4th of July; the right thing to do, no longer. The times, they are a changin'.

All of us see the monster we created when we walked into the voting booth, pulled the straight party lever without even knowing the name of the candidates, then emerged, a patriot. But none of us want to see it. In fact, we are desperate to elude it. And maybe that desperation has fueled the last gasp of Harley Davidson, which we have recently witnessed.

I am acquainted with several people that have harleys. I don't know any young people that ride new harleys. Do you? Seriously. The young people riding older bikes have an older relative that is a harley guy or play the bad boy game the little girls find soooo irresistible. Only people I see on new harleys are retired and trying to spend it, before they die A harley was your ticked to the party; your credential, as a member of the in crowd, but now all that is changing; almost gone.

Were I you I would be selling my stock in the moco off. I think harley will not recover, this time. Impossible, you say? Well, look at bars. Most of the bars in my town are long gone. Cops are busting anyone who drank one beer (.08 you know). But, who woulda thunkit? Bars? A thing of the past?

I have always seen2 choices: Roll with the changes or get rolled under, by them.

 

 

Wife and I went to a bike night in northern Michigan last night. It was a beautiful evening and we got there a little early anticipating a good crowd. It wasn't a huge crowd but it was a different bunch than previous years. After going for a number of years we got to recognize the old guard. I knew one guy there and he sat with us. It might have been an abomination but things appear to be changing. There was food and beer available so you would think riders would be there rather than riding. We were.

 

True. Not sure what the problem is. Price a big Indian lately? Or a Scout for that matter. And the demographic issue. I see younger riders on HD. Maybe not
20 year olds, but not old as dirt like I am.

 

Here is my take @ 36 yo. I started on crotch rockets. Then switched to Metric cruisers. I had never even considered an HD. I had the impression they were super expensive and unreliable. I rode my little Honda Shadow for 3 or 4 years. I got tired of the carb and 5 speed and knew that HD offered FI and 6 speeds on their bikes. I checked out their selection and fell in love with the 2009 Road King. The Honda ran circles around the Road King performance wise, but the RK was just so much more bike and a nicer ride. Cruise Control, auto cancel turn signals, no more waiting for the carb to warm up. I never even looked at the larger metric cruisers.

Fast forward 9 years later and I just picked up an Ultra. I have lusted after an Ultra since I had my RK. A coworker had an older 5 speed EGC at the same time I had my RK. I was hooked but always thought no way could I ever afford a $25K bike. My RK was $18K OTD and that was stretching it. Well a lot happens in 9 years. Finally I was able to afford it and appreciated the extra luxuries for riding with my long term companion. We test rode one and the ride vs my '10 Fat Boy blew me away. I don't think it's faster, but the handling and braking are way better. That sealed the deal. Plus, the look. No metric cruiser is even close to the baggers that HD offers in the looks dept. imo.

Now, people talk about price and image. I own one piece of Harley apparel. My GF has quite a bit though. Image is one thing I never cared about. I ride an HD because I like how they look and like the sounds/shakes you get from them. I could care less if I have a bad boy image or not. When I am out (not on a bike), the only people that I see wear HD shirts exclusively are those over 60 who have huge guts and worn out old shirts. That is the image that is killing HD for those that worry about such things. Like Corvette, HD needs to turn their image around.

To me, the Sportsters have always been branded as a "girls" bike. (no offense to any sportsters owners). They are tiny bikes, too small for a tall person to ride comfortable imo. They were always plain jane and looked like a honda rebel to me. Over the past 5 years though, they have really turned that line and others into an aggressive looking cool bike. A little too much too late? Dunno. I absolutely love the Fat Bob. However, $18K is a bit steep for me on that bike, which leads to the pricing issue.

They are friggen expensive. A 1200 CC sportster starts at 10K. 883s are close in price to their competition. The issue is if you want a "cool" looking HD. A special model is priced way above the regular version. The specials look great to me. They could attract younger buyers since they don't have chrome for days. However, they all come with a $2,000+ premium. RKS, $22K. SGS, $26K Are they off their rockers? CVOs are $40K+ for some bits out of their catalog. Their pricing makes no sense to me. Chrome days are over for now. Everyone wants black or body colored stuff. You can buy an EGC for less than a SGS and end up with more bike. You can buy a full bagger Vulcan 1700 for $17,000. That's $7,000 under a comparable HD.

HD now has a decent lineup started, now they need to figure out their pricing.

One last thing I blame are cell phones and internet. We didn't have that **** when growing up. We jumped on our bikes and rode to our friends house and did **** outdoors. Now everyone lays around the house and facetimes and talk back and forth through words on a screen. Cycles are more social, which kids aren't accustomed to. I have gone to some car meets recently and there are younger guys who only talk to their single friend. You go up to them and they kind of look at you like you are nuts. But then they go online the next day and say how awesome the meet was. Makes no sense. Younger generation is much less social in person which I am sure attributes to lack of interest in riding.

 

I noticed the same thing this year at the gym. Used to be 4 or 5 bikes parked out front almost every day. So far this year I have seen two parked out front and that was one in May and one in June.

 

Another thing to consider is economic issues. For most people primary transportation is a car. Some people may see a motorcycle as a item they can not afford or should not buy. While the employment rate is increasing a bit many of the jobs do not provide a living wage. In many cases it takes both parents working just to get by and the luxury of buying a big boy toy (as some see it) just is not there. But some of that may be related to the global economy we now have to play in. The global economy has created competition from outside and a corporate drive to decrease costs and increase profits in a global market exasperates the situation. As a result income rates are stagnant in some sectors and many families simply do not have disposable income.