Why is Harley riding on a decline?
#771
I don't think a remake of easy rider will work in this day and age. Google summarizes the original Easy Rider movie like this:
I have projected how the 2018 version would be summarized.. It just won't work!
Wyatt (Peter Fonda) and Billy (Dennis Hopper), two Harley-riding hippies, complete a drug deal in Southern California and decide to travel cross-country in search of spiritual truth. On their journey, they experience bigotry and hatred from the inhabitants of small-town America and also meet with other travelers seeking alternative lifestyles. After a terrifying drug experience in New Orleans, the two travelers wonder if they will ever find a way to live peacefully in America.
Wyatt and Billy, two Harley-riding millennials, complete an ecstasy deal in Southern California and decide to travel cross-country in search of the ultimate Triple, Venti, Half Sweet, Non-Fat, Caramel Macchiato. On their journey, they find the inhabitants of small-town America are intolerant, gun loving bible thumpers. They also take time to update their status on Instagram and Facebook. After a terrifying experience at a job interview in New Orleans, the two travelers wonder if they will ever find a way to live prosperously in America while clinging to their socialistic ideals.
Last edited by hairymoth; 03-15-2018 at 12:00 PM.
The following 2 users liked this post by hairymoth:
Jackpot Johnnie (03-15-2018),
JB Johnson (05-03-2018)
#772
The cruiser style (V Twin, low seat, forward and mid controls) bike market is becoming a niche market, not just for HD, but for all motorcycle manufacturers. On top of this they need to share the existing customers in the cruiser market with Indian, Ducati and the Japanese manufacturers. Trends change. People want adv bikes, sport tourers, and "all rounders" now just like people used to buy station wagons, then minivans and now SUVs. If HD is doing one thing right it is jumping on the electric bandwagon early. This is going to be a huge market post ~2025, probably outselling gas bikes. They need to start making these in large enough quantities though to get the cost down and we need to get an electric charging infrastructure in place to make the inevitable switch over to electric cars and bikes. Europe and Asia will likely lead the US by several years in this due to their more strict environmental laws, which will give their manufacturers a big advantage against companies like HD. Companies like Volkswagen and BMW are predicting the majority of their manufacture will be electric vehicles by 2024.
There are people who will only buy HD just like their are people who will only buy General motors but they are few and far between. Most people, when they have $10K to $20K to spend on a motorcycle will shop around, and there are now more than ever a lot of very enticing bikes out their to buy.
Not directly related but the HD Street seems to have been a failure. It is over priced compared to it's japanese competitors, for what it offers, and has ergonomic issues that most road testers seem to complain about.
Last edited by Mikhailov; 03-15-2018 at 02:04 PM.
The following users liked this post:
Jackpot Johnnie (03-16-2018)
#773
I'm going to vote on price... And saying that there is cheaper new Harleys that the younger generation will buy doesn't make sense to me. Have you seen how tall a lot of these 18 year olds are that are graduating now? I was 6'2 at 18.... So I'd look like I was moped on a Street or Sportster... You can go up to a Street bob or Softail... But you're looking at usually another 5k at least. I think that is another reason that used bikes are selling so well also compared to the new. The dealership closest to me probably sells 3 used bikes to every new bike they sell. The keep about 20-25 new bikes inside and around 100 used out front. I stop by twice a week sometimes and see how fast the used ones are selling. Plus the younger generation would rather spend 1k on a iPhone than spend that on a freight and setup charge.
#775
Customers vote with their wallets. Despite all the naysayers and gloom and doom people, Harley riding, and riding in general, isn't on the decline at all. There is really no metric for the used market, and since they made so many bikes throughout the past 18 years, the used market is huge. We're talking over 2 million motorcycles that have a Harley badge out on the street. Hog has over a million members, or at least used to, and we're not even beginning to count the other marques with a hat in the ring.
HD Motor company is only interested in one thing, and that is selling new bikes. Now, how do we go about getting people onto new bikes? Well, in the old days, we started them on used ones. The issue? The local dealer, and dealers in general, only work on bikes 10 years old or newer, for the most part. Our local has more work than they can physically do. Now, they've got a new motor as well. So, who will end up working on those 2 million bikes out there, if not the dealers?
It isn't a mystery to me that they say the Harley demographic is getting older. They were always older, and more middle class than the people who they characterize as being Harley riders. But those guys didn't buy new. They bought used, older bikes, on the cheap, and customized them. Mostly because they worked in that industry. They might be painters, or wrenches, or powdercoaters, or machinists, but they weren't Drs and lawyers, who don't have the time to ride, much less wrench. They are your newer market.
I've always said that the real truth is, we are all bikers at heart, but some of us have jobs and careers that we cannot afford to throw away. I don't believe in this whole poser thing, and I think that most of corporate America is the one living the lie. Given their druthers, they too would rather be riding.
So, the real question here is, not Harley riding on a decline, but why isn't the Moco selling more new bikes to younger people? Ask the younger people, and listen to what they say. But, before you do anything rash, crunch the numbers and determine if all of the whinging wannabes out there who say that Harley should do this or that is actually buying bikes from Harley. If not, then take what they say with a grain of salt, and keep building whatever is selling. You might not sell as many, but you probably won't go under either.
I think the 2018s are geat. I got another softail, after 2 Road Kings. But, my softail is also a Fat Bob, which was the best of the Dynas. Add to that the new swingarm and shocks, the new motor, and a really excellent headlight, and there's not alot about the bike I don't love. I voted with my wallet. Even if I gotta catch a couple extra shifts here and there to get the stuff I want for it, there's no issue for me at all. It ended up costing me about 30 bucks more a month over the FL, and I have no regrets. I don't even think about my old bike. That for me is a first. Harley riding isn't on the decline. Noit at all. There's more Harley riders out there now than ever before, and every year, our numbers increase. Someone will get a great deal on an already done up FL, and I am riding what I really always wanted, only better than I ever imagined it could be.
Can we stop with the gloom and doom stuff now, please?
HD Motor company is only interested in one thing, and that is selling new bikes. Now, how do we go about getting people onto new bikes? Well, in the old days, we started them on used ones. The issue? The local dealer, and dealers in general, only work on bikes 10 years old or newer, for the most part. Our local has more work than they can physically do. Now, they've got a new motor as well. So, who will end up working on those 2 million bikes out there, if not the dealers?
It isn't a mystery to me that they say the Harley demographic is getting older. They were always older, and more middle class than the people who they characterize as being Harley riders. But those guys didn't buy new. They bought used, older bikes, on the cheap, and customized them. Mostly because they worked in that industry. They might be painters, or wrenches, or powdercoaters, or machinists, but they weren't Drs and lawyers, who don't have the time to ride, much less wrench. They are your newer market.
I've always said that the real truth is, we are all bikers at heart, but some of us have jobs and careers that we cannot afford to throw away. I don't believe in this whole poser thing, and I think that most of corporate America is the one living the lie. Given their druthers, they too would rather be riding.
So, the real question here is, not Harley riding on a decline, but why isn't the Moco selling more new bikes to younger people? Ask the younger people, and listen to what they say. But, before you do anything rash, crunch the numbers and determine if all of the whinging wannabes out there who say that Harley should do this or that is actually buying bikes from Harley. If not, then take what they say with a grain of salt, and keep building whatever is selling. You might not sell as many, but you probably won't go under either.
I think the 2018s are geat. I got another softail, after 2 Road Kings. But, my softail is also a Fat Bob, which was the best of the Dynas. Add to that the new swingarm and shocks, the new motor, and a really excellent headlight, and there's not alot about the bike I don't love. I voted with my wallet. Even if I gotta catch a couple extra shifts here and there to get the stuff I want for it, there's no issue for me at all. It ended up costing me about 30 bucks more a month over the FL, and I have no regrets. I don't even think about my old bike. That for me is a first. Harley riding isn't on the decline. Noit at all. There's more Harley riders out there now than ever before, and every year, our numbers increase. Someone will get a great deal on an already done up FL, and I am riding what I really always wanted, only better than I ever imagined it could be.
Can we stop with the gloom and doom stuff now, please?
#776
Customers vote with their wallets. Despite all the naysayers and gloom and doom people, Harley riding, and riding in general, isn't on the decline at all. There is really no metric for the used market, and since they made so many bikes throughout the past 18 years, the used market is huge. We're talking over 2 million motorcycles that have a Harley badge out on the street. Hog has over a million members, or at least used to, and we're not even beginning to count the other marques with a hat in the ring.
HD Motor company is only interested in one thing, and that is selling new bikes. Now, how do we go about getting people onto new bikes? Well, in the old days, we started them on used ones. The issue? The local dealer, and dealers in general, only work on bikes 10 years old or newer, for the most part. Our local has more work than they can physically do. Now, they've got a new motor as well. So, who will end up working on those 2 million bikes out there, if not the dealers?
It isn't a mystery to me that they say the Harley demographic is getting older. They were always older, and more middle class than the people who they characterize as being Harley riders. But those guys didn't buy new. They bought used, older bikes, on the cheap, and customized them. Mostly because they worked in that industry. They might be painters, or wrenches, or powdercoaters, or machinists, but they weren't Drs and lawyers, who don't have the time to ride, much less wrench. They are your newer market.
I've always said that the real truth is, we are all bikers at heart, but some of us have jobs and careers that we cannot afford to throw away. I don't believe in this whole poser thing, and I think that most of corporate America is the one living the lie. Given their druthers, they too would rather be riding.
So, the real question here is, not Harley riding on a decline, but why isn't the Moco selling more new bikes to younger people? Ask the younger people, and listen to what they say. But, before you do anything rash, crunch the numbers and determine if all of the whinging wannabes out there who say that Harley should do this or that is actually buying bikes from Harley. If not, then take what they say with a grain of salt, and keep building whatever is selling. You might not sell as many, but you probably won't go under either.
I think the 2018s are geat. I got another softail, after 2 Road Kings. But, my softail is also a Fat Bob, which was the best of the Dynas. Add to that the new swingarm and shocks, the new motor, and a really excellent headlight, and there's not alot about the bike I don't love. I voted with my wallet. Even if I gotta catch a couple extra shifts here and there to get the stuff I want for it, there's no issue for me at all. It ended up costing me about 30 bucks more a month over the FL, and I have no regrets. I don't even think about my old bike. That for me is a first. Harley riding isn't on the decline. Noit at all. There's more Harley riders out there now than ever before, and every year, our numbers increase. Someone will get a great deal on an already done up FL, and I am riding what I really always wanted, only better than I ever imagined it could be.
Can we stop with the gloom and doom stuff now, please?
HD Motor company is only interested in one thing, and that is selling new bikes. Now, how do we go about getting people onto new bikes? Well, in the old days, we started them on used ones. The issue? The local dealer, and dealers in general, only work on bikes 10 years old or newer, for the most part. Our local has more work than they can physically do. Now, they've got a new motor as well. So, who will end up working on those 2 million bikes out there, if not the dealers?
It isn't a mystery to me that they say the Harley demographic is getting older. They were always older, and more middle class than the people who they characterize as being Harley riders. But those guys didn't buy new. They bought used, older bikes, on the cheap, and customized them. Mostly because they worked in that industry. They might be painters, or wrenches, or powdercoaters, or machinists, but they weren't Drs and lawyers, who don't have the time to ride, much less wrench. They are your newer market.
I've always said that the real truth is, we are all bikers at heart, but some of us have jobs and careers that we cannot afford to throw away. I don't believe in this whole poser thing, and I think that most of corporate America is the one living the lie. Given their druthers, they too would rather be riding.
So, the real question here is, not Harley riding on a decline, but why isn't the Moco selling more new bikes to younger people? Ask the younger people, and listen to what they say. But, before you do anything rash, crunch the numbers and determine if all of the whinging wannabes out there who say that Harley should do this or that is actually buying bikes from Harley. If not, then take what they say with a grain of salt, and keep building whatever is selling. You might not sell as many, but you probably won't go under either.
I think the 2018s are geat. I got another softail, after 2 Road Kings. But, my softail is also a Fat Bob, which was the best of the Dynas. Add to that the new swingarm and shocks, the new motor, and a really excellent headlight, and there's not alot about the bike I don't love. I voted with my wallet. Even if I gotta catch a couple extra shifts here and there to get the stuff I want for it, there's no issue for me at all. It ended up costing me about 30 bucks more a month over the FL, and I have no regrets. I don't even think about my old bike. That for me is a first. Harley riding isn't on the decline. Noit at all. There's more Harley riders out there now than ever before, and every year, our numbers increase. Someone will get a great deal on an already done up FL, and I am riding what I really always wanted, only better than I ever imagined it could be.
Can we stop with the gloom and doom stuff now, please?
The following users liked this post:
Stretchman (03-17-2018)
#778
#779
The used market is booming. 4-5 year old bikes with anywhere from 1k-10k miles can be found regularly. Why would anyone buy new? That being said Harley will never go under. My uncle bought a brand new Indian Chief Classic last year and the first thing he said to me was that Indian is taking Harley down. I laughed at him. Harley makes enough money selling $50 t shirts to fund a war.
#780
It always cracks me up when people start talking about how Polaris Industries is killing Harley. They'll start quoting percentages like they've more than doubled their percentages that they sold this year. And Harley down 2% or whatever. It's apples to oranges. Indian Motorcycles doesn't post their numbers of bikes they sell with good reason. But if you're interested to know roughly their motorcycles compared to Harley keep in mind the recent recall for Indian motorcycles. You know the one that included all big twin equivalent 2018 bikes sold this year. Under 5,000...... I can't be bothered to do the math but I'm sure it's around 130,000 for Harley in the same length of time. Now I'm not saying Indian hasn't had good growth but most of that came from the already former Harley disgruntled Victory owners.