Why is Harley riding on a decline?
#691
02-21-2018, 06:49 PM
Extreme HDF Member
As far as the comment that Buell never sold many bikes. In their run they sold 136,000 bikes. In the same length of time Victory sold 128,000 bikes.
In the US the main competitor to Buell was Ducati and Buell out sold them every year in the US market.
Too many folks post their opinion of what they think are facts but mostly they post false beliefs without any merit or foundation in fact.
Another example: In the past 4-5 years in the age group of 19 to 34 when buying an over 600cc street bike H-D captured from 50 to 54% of that US market with a large share being female, black and hispanic. Those facts gleaned from H-D sales figures don't show up in the imagined facts of ignorant posters.
I am now a diehard H-D enthusiast that came to H-D at 65 years old from a lifetime of metrics.
I have never found the bikes, parts or labor rates any different than the metric shops period.
Since 2006 I have purchased 26 new H-D's and 9 used. To me the prices were fair and the return when trading or selling was better than my decades of experience with over 32 metrics.
The maintenance was less, less troubles, better mpg and lower insurance rates. End of story.
Tom84FXST - I insured three Corvettes and a Viper for under $400 each. It's called collectors insurance. Mileage limitations, approved building to store in and other stipulations.
In the US the main competitor to Buell was Ducati and Buell out sold them every year in the US market.
Too many folks post their opinion of what they think are facts but mostly they post false beliefs without any merit or foundation in fact.
Another example: In the past 4-5 years in the age group of 19 to 34 when buying an over 600cc street bike H-D captured from 50 to 54% of that US market with a large share being female, black and hispanic. Those facts gleaned from H-D sales figures don't show up in the imagined facts of ignorant posters.
I am now a diehard H-D enthusiast that came to H-D at 65 years old from a lifetime of metrics.
I have never found the bikes, parts or labor rates any different than the metric shops period.
Since 2006 I have purchased 26 new H-D's and 9 used. To me the prices were fair and the return when trading or selling was better than my decades of experience with over 32 metrics.
The maintenance was less, less troubles, better mpg and lower insurance rates. End of story.
Tom84FXST - I insured three Corvettes and a Viper for under $400 each. It's called collectors insurance. Mileage limitations, approved building to store in and other stipulations.
Last edited by ChickinOnaChain; 02-22-2018 at 09:42 AM.
#692
02-21-2018, 09:44 PM
Outstanding HDF Member
Originally Posted by brudford
I know an owner of a Harley dealership here in PA and he told me a few things about what is to come . More than just the closure of the Missouri plant but production will be scaled back more than ever in the past . Harley knows that there is a huge inventory of good used bikes . More lay-offs for employees and replaced by temps . Going ahead with the overseas factories and more Harely parts will be out sourced with non USA made parts . Also a little side note, the big change to the Sporster line-up will be a smaller and stiffer frame that has a lower center of gravity making the bike easier to ride . Hold onto your almost American made Harley .
Hell, him telling you anything is the reason he doesn't know squat.
Last edited by Cbyway; 02-21-2018 at 09:46 PM.
#694
02-21-2018, 11:24 PM
Well, being as tho I am a member of all the demographics that the HD culture despises (milllenials and non whites), i'll give my opinion (which is probably more accurate):
1. The dealership experience has turned into a KKK style rally. If you aint a white male in a lifted pickup or on an HD, you're ignored or treated shitty (dont ask how i know).
2. Salesmen are not very friendly OR inviting if you're not part of culture mentioned above. And dont dare ask them to compare the HD to a competitor. You'll get ran out the building as if you insulted their mom.
3. The cost of entry. Why would I spend close to $25k on a bike that i STILL have to drop another $5k on? I mean damn, for $25k, can i at least get some speakers I can hear above 50 mph? Also, ever seen what you can get for $25k at the Indian or Victory dealer? I believe a $25k victory is the equivalent of a $40k HD (or damn close). What about that new slingshot? WAY better and cooler than and HD will EVER be.
4. Parts - even die hard HD owners complain about the prices. Enough said.
5. The bikes - they suck. plain and simple. They were probably cool for the generation in the 70s and 80s that had to project that sort of fake tough guy persona, but nowadays, they just flat out suck. I mean c'mon HD, how is it that your "upgraded" bike is basically a copy of your competitors?
6. The culture - did I mention the culture? The image? Nobody wants to be seen as or associated with middle aged trump supporting white men nowadays. That just aint cool. Unfortunately, HD has catered to this demographic to the point of no return. HD is screwed. Might as well sell out to the chinese or to polaris or something.
Due to reasons mentioned above, I will soon be selling my HD and moving along. With all the newer, cooler, cheaper machines and better technology around, im sure we'll be just fine without HD. Will they be missed? Sure. But the generation who made them famous and who will miss HD the most wont be around much longer and will soon be missed too. And the culture...it feels SO GOOD to be around bikers who dont act like rednecks and who dont wanna talk politics or what happened in chicago last century.
1. The dealership experience has turned into a KKK style rally. If you aint a white male in a lifted pickup or on an HD, you're ignored or treated shitty (dont ask how i know).
2. Salesmen are not very friendly OR inviting if you're not part of culture mentioned above. And dont dare ask them to compare the HD to a competitor. You'll get ran out the building as if you insulted their mom.
3. The cost of entry. Why would I spend close to $25k on a bike that i STILL have to drop another $5k on? I mean damn, for $25k, can i at least get some speakers I can hear above 50 mph? Also, ever seen what you can get for $25k at the Indian or Victory dealer? I believe a $25k victory is the equivalent of a $40k HD (or damn close). What about that new slingshot? WAY better and cooler than and HD will EVER be.
4. Parts - even die hard HD owners complain about the prices. Enough said.
5. The bikes - they suck. plain and simple. They were probably cool for the generation in the 70s and 80s that had to project that sort of fake tough guy persona, but nowadays, they just flat out suck. I mean c'mon HD, how is it that your "upgraded" bike is basically a copy of your competitors?
6. The culture - did I mention the culture? The image? Nobody wants to be seen as or associated with middle aged trump supporting white men nowadays. That just aint cool. Unfortunately, HD has catered to this demographic to the point of no return. HD is screwed. Might as well sell out to the chinese or to polaris or something.
Due to reasons mentioned above, I will soon be selling my HD and moving along. With all the newer, cooler, cheaper machines and better technology around, im sure we'll be just fine without HD. Will they be missed? Sure. But the generation who made them famous and who will miss HD the most wont be around much longer and will soon be missed too. And the culture...it feels SO GOOD to be around bikers who dont act like rednecks and who dont wanna talk politics or what happened in chicago last century.
2. The salesman I was talking to was very patient with me as above. I told him I was looking at the Indian Roadmaster, and Honda Goldwing.
3. For the other models I was considering, I'll bet you they are all in about the same price range.
4. Parts are the same way as far as pricing for all brands, if bought from dealership or name branded.
5. I'm sure there are some minor changes. Maybe not as note worthy as other brands.
6. Again, I am Asian, middle aged, non Hillary supporter, and deplorable. Since I am not white that makes it ok for me to own a HD.
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#695
02-22-2018, 05:02 AM
dealers are independent companies. the most likely explanation is that this particular one is just staffed by jerks.
but no, let's be the typical American ******** and claim it's either because Harley Davidson is a bunch of racists, or the poster is a whiny snowflake.
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#696
02-22-2018, 08:13 AM
Grand HDF Member
Well, being as tho I am a member of all the demographics that the HD culture despises (milllenials and non whites), i'll give my opinion (which is probably more accurate):
1. The dealership experience has turned into a KKK style rally. If you aint a white male in a lifted pickup or on an HD, you're ignored or treated shitty (dont ask how i know).
2. Salesmen are not very friendly OR inviting if you're not part of culture mentioned above. And dont dare ask them to compare the HD to a competitor. You'll get ran out the building as if you insulted their mom.
3. The cost of entry. Why would I spend close to $25k on a bike that i STILL have to drop another $5k on? I mean damn, for $25k, can i at least get some speakers I can hear above 50 mph? Also, ever seen what you can get for $25k at the Indian or Victory dealer? I believe a $25k victory is the equivalent of a $40k HD (or damn close). What about that new slingshot? WAY better and cooler than and HD will EVER be.
4. Parts - even die hard HD owners complain about the prices. Enough said.
5. The bikes - they suck. plain and simple. They were probably cool for the generation in the 70s and 80s that had to project that sort of fake tough guy persona, but nowadays, they just flat out suck. I mean c'mon HD, how is it that your "upgraded" bike is basically a copy of your competitors?
6. The culture - did I mention the culture? The image? Nobody wants to be seen as or associated with middle aged trump supporting white men nowadays. That just aint cool. Unfortunately, HD has catered to this demographic to the point of no return. HD is screwed. Might as well sell out to the chinese or to polaris or something.
Due to reasons mentioned above, I will soon be selling my HD and moving along. With all the newer, cooler, cheaper machines and better technology around, im sure we'll be just fine without HD. Will they be missed? Sure. But the generation who made them famous and who will miss HD the most wont be around much longer and will soon be missed too. And the culture...it feels SO GOOD to be around bikers who dont act like rednecks and who dont wanna talk politics or what happened in chicago last century.
1. The dealership experience has turned into a KKK style rally. If you aint a white male in a lifted pickup or on an HD, you're ignored or treated shitty (dont ask how i know).
2. Salesmen are not very friendly OR inviting if you're not part of culture mentioned above. And dont dare ask them to compare the HD to a competitor. You'll get ran out the building as if you insulted their mom.
3. The cost of entry. Why would I spend close to $25k on a bike that i STILL have to drop another $5k on? I mean damn, for $25k, can i at least get some speakers I can hear above 50 mph? Also, ever seen what you can get for $25k at the Indian or Victory dealer? I believe a $25k victory is the equivalent of a $40k HD (or damn close). What about that new slingshot? WAY better and cooler than and HD will EVER be.
4. Parts - even die hard HD owners complain about the prices. Enough said.
5. The bikes - they suck. plain and simple. They were probably cool for the generation in the 70s and 80s that had to project that sort of fake tough guy persona, but nowadays, they just flat out suck. I mean c'mon HD, how is it that your "upgraded" bike is basically a copy of your competitors?
6. The culture - did I mention the culture? The image? Nobody wants to be seen as or associated with middle aged trump supporting white men nowadays. That just aint cool. Unfortunately, HD has catered to this demographic to the point of no return. HD is screwed. Might as well sell out to the chinese or to polaris or something.
Due to reasons mentioned above, I will soon be selling my HD and moving along. With all the newer, cooler, cheaper machines and better technology around, im sure we'll be just fine without HD. Will they be missed? Sure. But the generation who made them famous and who will miss HD the most wont be around much longer and will soon be missed too. And the culture...it feels SO GOOD to be around bikers who dont act like rednecks and who dont wanna talk politics or what happened in chicago last century.
I've never experienced this at any of the 6 dealerships I've been to. I'm not into the bad boy culture thing at all. I wore hi-viz for a couple years and wear a sport bike style helmet. I definitely don't look the part. But I love HD bikes (not all) and the whole experience has been pretty great.
"The bikes - they suck. plain and simple."
It's hard take everything else you said objectively if this is how you feel. Obviously this isn't the brand for you. Here's wishing you all the best wherever you end up.
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#697
02-22-2018, 11:48 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
#698
02-22-2018, 12:26 PM
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#699
02-22-2018, 01:20 PM
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#700
02-22-2018, 01:25 PM
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