Dealer Charges
#21
10-17-2017, 08:18 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Sandy Eggo's North County
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#22
10-17-2017, 09:01 PM
Intermediate
#23
10-17-2017, 09:18 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
Interesting. I had the dealer do my 1k as well, but the tech told me to stick with dino as "recommended by the MOCO" due to excessive noise with the lighter oil. In hindsight I suspect it was due to the issue with trans oil seeping into the primary. I'm currently using synthetic with no problems.
#24
10-18-2017, 09:39 AM
LOL. That's a good one Dickey
I get her warmed up per the manual. (Hot oil flows faster) Dump primary and tranny at same time. Put plugs in. Dump that oil into container to take to O'Reilly for waste because two quarts are easier to empty into container than six. Don't ask me how I know....LOL Drain oil and after a few minutes change filter. Put plug in. Repeat the transfer to container. Add all fluids and go ride.
#26
10-19-2017, 05:52 AM
Club Member
$500 was my bill for the 1k service..... Last time HD did service on it. 21k and have done all the routine maintenance myself for less that the 1K at the dealer.
#27
10-19-2017, 06:49 AM
Outstanding HDF Member
Makes one wonder what the manufacturer recommendations really are for which oil to use for the first service. One dealers recommends to use the dino oil, another advises to use standard oil, yet another dealer recommends replacing with synthetic. I had the 1K done last week and they said they use synthetic unless the owner requests differently. He also reiterated that most seem to think the break-in period is 1000 miles, when in fact it is only 500. The 1k mark is when the service is due.
The owners manual isn't specific either other than choosing the correct blend related to temperature / climate.
I have records on file from Blackstone Labs from my diesel trucks where I have used them for analysis. This is a guy who does oil analysis day in and day out, everyday. He insists that this stuff is all over thought and confused by many owners. As long as you are using an oil product in any motor that is rated according to the manufacturer it doesn't matter which brand you use at all. The key is to change it regularly. He has told me that synthetic oil is better, if used for extended periods. However, he also states that most owners who are **** enough to use synthetic, probably never get their dollars worth from doing so because they just can't bring themselves to do extended oil changes. Extended oil change is the benefit of paying the difference in price between standard oil and synthetic oil, not the difference between lubrication ability within 3000 miles. It doesn't lubricate better, it just last longer. He advises its nuts paying the difference for synthetic oil on anything you will not keep for a very long time. Granted some do, most however change cars/bikes/trucks every few years. He is really an entertaining guy, most of his responses are pretty funny on the FAQ's page on their website. His attitude is "if you feel better using synthetic by all means use it" and never will he tell you which oil is best. He will only break down your sample and tell you how your oil has performed and what his recommendations are for intervals according to the sample.
The car dealerships, quick lube drive thru and service stations all preach to change your oil every 3000 miles or three months regardless of mileage. He states many years ago that was probably true, but with the oils these days its simply a gimmick. I send him an oil sample every 50k miles on my 2002, Ford, 7.3 Powerstroke. I use Rotella and always have changed it at 5k miles. Every time I get the results he tells me that the oil was still good and to extend the mileage on the next sample by 2500-3000 miles, which I never do. I can't bring myself to do an 8k mile oil change on a truck that has given me the service this one has, its a mental thing. Mind you this is not Synthetic oil I am using either. Last time he replied "I wish I lived close to you I would collect your used oil and put it in my truck or use it in my tractor." Hes that kind of guy. Very honest and straightforward. This is not a commercial for Blackstone Labs, just my experience.
The owners manual isn't specific either other than choosing the correct blend related to temperature / climate.
I have records on file from Blackstone Labs from my diesel trucks where I have used them for analysis. This is a guy who does oil analysis day in and day out, everyday. He insists that this stuff is all over thought and confused by many owners. As long as you are using an oil product in any motor that is rated according to the manufacturer it doesn't matter which brand you use at all. The key is to change it regularly. He has told me that synthetic oil is better, if used for extended periods. However, he also states that most owners who are **** enough to use synthetic, probably never get their dollars worth from doing so because they just can't bring themselves to do extended oil changes. Extended oil change is the benefit of paying the difference in price between standard oil and synthetic oil, not the difference between lubrication ability within 3000 miles. It doesn't lubricate better, it just last longer. He advises its nuts paying the difference for synthetic oil on anything you will not keep for a very long time. Granted some do, most however change cars/bikes/trucks every few years. He is really an entertaining guy, most of his responses are pretty funny on the FAQ's page on their website. His attitude is "if you feel better using synthetic by all means use it" and never will he tell you which oil is best. He will only break down your sample and tell you how your oil has performed and what his recommendations are for intervals according to the sample.
The car dealerships, quick lube drive thru and service stations all preach to change your oil every 3000 miles or three months regardless of mileage. He states many years ago that was probably true, but with the oils these days its simply a gimmick. I send him an oil sample every 50k miles on my 2002, Ford, 7.3 Powerstroke. I use Rotella and always have changed it at 5k miles. Every time I get the results he tells me that the oil was still good and to extend the mileage on the next sample by 2500-3000 miles, which I never do. I can't bring myself to do an 8k mile oil change on a truck that has given me the service this one has, its a mental thing. Mind you this is not Synthetic oil I am using either. Last time he replied "I wish I lived close to you I would collect your used oil and put it in my truck or use it in my tractor." Hes that kind of guy. Very honest and straightforward. This is not a commercial for Blackstone Labs, just my experience.
The following 2 users liked this post by Cbyway:
LowRiderGuy (10-19-2017),
Matt990724 (10-19-2017)
#28
10-19-2017, 07:19 AM
Grand HDF Member
Just wondering, if you bought a new car or truck, and the dealer was adamant that you brought it back at 1000 mi. for a $300 - $500 service, wouldn't you think that was kind of a hokey attempt at getting some more of your $$$?
I bit once on a 2011 and I waited and watched the "comprehensive service" through an upstairs lounge window at Pig Trail HD. NEVER again. All they did was change oil in all 3 holes and wash the bike. It sat on the lift table for about 3 hours. For 1.5 hours no one touched it.
Pretty damn expensive oil change and wash.
I bit once on a 2011 and I waited and watched the "comprehensive service" through an upstairs lounge window at Pig Trail HD. NEVER again. All they did was change oil in all 3 holes and wash the bike. It sat on the lift table for about 3 hours. For 1.5 hours no one touched it.
Pretty damn expensive oil change and wash.
#29
10-19-2017, 07:36 AM
Just wondering, if you bought a new car or truck, and the dealer was adamant that you brought it back at 1000 mi. for a $300 - $500 service, wouldn't you think that was kind of a hokey attempt at getting some more of your $$$?
I bit once on a 2011 and I waited and watched the "comprehensive service" through an upstairs lounge window at Pig Trail HD. NEVER again. All they did was change oil in all 3 holes and wash the bike. It sat on the lift table for about 3 hours. For 1.5 hours no one touched it.
Pretty damn expensive oil change and wash.
I bit once on a 2011 and I waited and watched the "comprehensive service" through an upstairs lounge window at Pig Trail HD. NEVER again. All they did was change oil in all 3 holes and wash the bike. It sat on the lift table for about 3 hours. For 1.5 hours no one touched it.
Pretty damn expensive oil change and wash.
Did you call the service manager out on that bull crap?
I'd really like to hear how that conversation went down. I hope you gave them an earful and got your price adjusted down to an oil change, if not free for the blatant attempt at theft.
#30
10-19-2017, 07:45 AM
Good info Cbyway....
I can confirm that brand to brand differences have minimal significance AS LONG AS BOTH BRANDS COMPLY WITH THE SAME SAE STANDARD.
The following is excerpted from the Petroleum Quality Institute of America...Some Engine Oils Currently on the Shelves Can Harm Your Engine - Read the Lables!
There are engine oils currently on the shelves at auto parts stores, gas station convenience stores, food stores, and other retail outlets that can cause harm to your car’s engine. Yes, you heard correctly - Cause harm to your car’s engine. These are obsolete engine oils formulated for use in cars built prior to the 1930s! Know how to read the labels on the front and back of the bottles of oil you buy or you may be using product that can cause unsatisfactory performance or harm to your engine.
The service rating of passenger car and commercial automotive motor oils is classified by the American Petroleum Institute (API). The program certifies that engine oil meets certain Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) quality and performance standards. The service rating is shown in the API "Service Symbol Donut" on the product label. As shown in the illustration below, engine oils with an API SA Service Classification were formulated for use in cars built prior to 1930, and are now obsolete. Yet, there are still not hard to find in retail outlets. Read on about what you need to read on the labels.
API SERVICE CLASSIFICATION FOR PASSENGER CAR ENGINE OIL
The current API Service Classification is SN
The labels include two important pieces of information to determine if an engine oil is appropriate for use in your vehicle. The first piece of information speaks to viscosity grade. The Society of Automotive Engineers(SAE) defines a numerical system for grading motor oils according to viscosity. The suffixes (0, 5, 10, 15 and 25) followed by the letter W designate the engine oil's "winter" grade.
Look to your owner's manual. It specifies the viscosity grade required for your car's engine. Today, the most common grades are 5W-30.
Watch for the "W"
Whereas the labeling on the bottle of engine oil may suggest the product is a 5W-30, note, if there is no "W" between the 5 and the 30 it may not be a 5W-30. As an example, a SAE 5-30 is not the same as an SAE 5W-30.
The next "code" to look for is the API Service Classification. Although it might appear complicated to understand at the start, it is really a simple system to get your arms around. Think of it this way, when cars were first built, the oil they required needed an API SA Service Classification. From there, it moved to SB, SC, SD, and so on (skipping only SI and SK). The current API Service Classification is SN.
So if you buy an engine oil meeting only API SA, it's an engine oil formulated for use in vehicles built in the 1920s. And SA is not hard to find mixed in with SM on the shelves at c-stores and others. Furthermore, it's also not hard to find SF, SJ and other API Service Categories on the shelves. Also, don't let price guide you. Engine oils with a Service Classification prior to SN (including SA) are often priced close to that of API SN.
The service rating of passenger car and commercial automotive motor oils is classified by the American Petroleum Institute (API). The program certifies that an oil meets certain Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) quality and performance standards. The service rating is shown in the API "Service Symbol Donut" on the product label.
The labels include two important pieces of information to determine if an engine oil is appropriate for use in your vehicle. The first piece of information speaks to viscosity grade. The Society of Automotive Engineers(SAE) defines a numerical system for grading motor oils according to viscosity. The suffixes (0, 5, 10, 15 and 25) followed by the letter W designate the engine oil's "winter" grade.
Look to your owner's manual. It specifies the viscosity grade required for your car's engine. Today, the most common grades are 5W-30 and 10W-30.
Watch for the "W"
Whereas the labeling on the bottle of engine oil may suggest the product is a 10W-30, note, if there is no "W" between the 10 and the 30 it may not be a 10W-30. As an example, a SAE 10-30 is not the same as an SAE 10W30.
The next "code" to look for is the API Service Classification. Although it might appear complicated to understand at the start, it is really a simple system to get your arms around. Think of it this way, when cars were first built, the oil they required needed an API SA Service Classification. From there, it moved to SB, SC, SD, and so on (skipping only SI). The current API Service Classification is SM.
So if you are buying an SA oil, it's an engine oil formulated for use in vehicles built in the 1920s. And SA is not hard to find mixed in with SN on the shelves at c-stores and others. Furthermore, it's also not hard to find other obsolete API Service Categories on the shelves. So read the labels on the oils you buy, ask questions when you have your oil changed and read your car owner's manual.
Always consult your vehicle owner's manual to determine what motor oil you should use, and READ THE LABELS ON THE OIL YOU BUY.
American Petroleum Institute
Gasoline Engine Oil Service ClassificationsCategoryStatusServiceSNCurrentIntro duced in October 2010 for 2011 and older vehicles, designed to provide improved high temperature deposit protection for pistons, more stringent sludge control, and seal compatibility. API SN with Resource Conserving matches ILSAC GF-5 by combining API SN performance with improved fuel economy, turbocharger protection, emission control system compatibility, and protection of engines operating on ethanol-containing fuels up to E85.SMCurrentFor 2010 and older automotive engines.SLCurrentFor 2004 and older automotive engines.SJCurrentFor 2001 and older automotive engines.SHObsoleteSGObsoleteSFObsoleteSEObsoleteCAUTION - Not suitable for use in gasoline-powered automobile engines built after 1979.SDObsoleteCAUTION - Not suitable for use in gasoline-powered automobile engines built after 1971. Use in more modern engines may cause unsatisfactory performance or equipment harm.SCObsoleteCAUTION - Not suitable for use in gasoline-powered automobile engines built after 1967. Use in more modern engines may cause unsatisfactory performance or equipment harm.SBObsoleteCAUTION - Not suitable for use in gasoline-powered automobile engines built after 1951. Use in more modern engines may cause unsatisfactory performance or equipment harm.SAObsoleteCAUTION - Not suitable for use in gasoline-powered automobile engines built after 1930. Use in more modern engines may cause unsatisfactory performance or equipment harm.
I can confirm that brand to brand differences have minimal significance AS LONG AS BOTH BRANDS COMPLY WITH THE SAME SAE STANDARD.
The following is excerpted from the Petroleum Quality Institute of America...Some Engine Oils Currently on the Shelves Can Harm Your Engine - Read the Lables!
There are engine oils currently on the shelves at auto parts stores, gas station convenience stores, food stores, and other retail outlets that can cause harm to your car’s engine. Yes, you heard correctly - Cause harm to your car’s engine. These are obsolete engine oils formulated for use in cars built prior to the 1930s! Know how to read the labels on the front and back of the bottles of oil you buy or you may be using product that can cause unsatisfactory performance or harm to your engine.
The service rating of passenger car and commercial automotive motor oils is classified by the American Petroleum Institute (API). The program certifies that engine oil meets certain Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) quality and performance standards. The service rating is shown in the API "Service Symbol Donut" on the product label. As shown in the illustration below, engine oils with an API SA Service Classification were formulated for use in cars built prior to 1930, and are now obsolete. Yet, there are still not hard to find in retail outlets. Read on about what you need to read on the labels.
API SERVICE CLASSIFICATION FOR PASSENGER CAR ENGINE OIL
The current API Service Classification is SN
The labels include two important pieces of information to determine if an engine oil is appropriate for use in your vehicle. The first piece of information speaks to viscosity grade. The Society of Automotive Engineers(SAE) defines a numerical system for grading motor oils according to viscosity. The suffixes (0, 5, 10, 15 and 25) followed by the letter W designate the engine oil's "winter" grade.
Look to your owner's manual. It specifies the viscosity grade required for your car's engine. Today, the most common grades are 5W-30.
Watch for the "W"
Whereas the labeling on the bottle of engine oil may suggest the product is a 5W-30, note, if there is no "W" between the 5 and the 30 it may not be a 5W-30. As an example, a SAE 5-30 is not the same as an SAE 5W-30.
The next "code" to look for is the API Service Classification. Although it might appear complicated to understand at the start, it is really a simple system to get your arms around. Think of it this way, when cars were first built, the oil they required needed an API SA Service Classification. From there, it moved to SB, SC, SD, and so on (skipping only SI and SK). The current API Service Classification is SN.
So if you buy an engine oil meeting only API SA, it's an engine oil formulated for use in vehicles built in the 1920s. And SA is not hard to find mixed in with SM on the shelves at c-stores and others. Furthermore, it's also not hard to find SF, SJ and other API Service Categories on the shelves. Also, don't let price guide you. Engine oils with a Service Classification prior to SN (including SA) are often priced close to that of API SN.
The service rating of passenger car and commercial automotive motor oils is classified by the American Petroleum Institute (API). The program certifies that an oil meets certain Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) quality and performance standards. The service rating is shown in the API "Service Symbol Donut" on the product label.
The labels include two important pieces of information to determine if an engine oil is appropriate for use in your vehicle. The first piece of information speaks to viscosity grade. The Society of Automotive Engineers(SAE) defines a numerical system for grading motor oils according to viscosity. The suffixes (0, 5, 10, 15 and 25) followed by the letter W designate the engine oil's "winter" grade.Look to your owner's manual. It specifies the viscosity grade required for your car's engine. Today, the most common grades are 5W-30 and 10W-30.
Watch for the "W"
Whereas the labeling on the bottle of engine oil may suggest the product is a 10W-30, note, if there is no "W" between the 10 and the 30 it may not be a 10W-30. As an example, a SAE 10-30 is not the same as an SAE 10W30.
The next "code" to look for is the API Service Classification. Although it might appear complicated to understand at the start, it is really a simple system to get your arms around. Think of it this way, when cars were first built, the oil they required needed an API SA Service Classification. From there, it moved to SB, SC, SD, and so on (skipping only SI). The current API Service Classification is SM.
So if you are buying an SA oil, it's an engine oil formulated for use in vehicles built in the 1920s. And SA is not hard to find mixed in with SN on the shelves at c-stores and others. Furthermore, it's also not hard to find other obsolete API Service Categories on the shelves. So read the labels on the oils you buy, ask questions when you have your oil changed and read your car owner's manual.
Always consult your vehicle owner's manual to determine what motor oil you should use, and READ THE LABELS ON THE OIL YOU BUY.
American Petroleum Institute
Gasoline Engine Oil Service ClassificationsCategoryStatusServiceSNCurrentIntro duced in October 2010 for 2011 and older vehicles, designed to provide improved high temperature deposit protection for pistons, more stringent sludge control, and seal compatibility. API SN with Resource Conserving matches ILSAC GF-5 by combining API SN performance with improved fuel economy, turbocharger protection, emission control system compatibility, and protection of engines operating on ethanol-containing fuels up to E85.SMCurrentFor 2010 and older automotive engines.SLCurrentFor 2004 and older automotive engines.SJCurrentFor 2001 and older automotive engines.SHObsoleteSGObsoleteSFObsoleteSEObsoleteCAUTION - Not suitable for use in gasoline-powered automobile engines built after 1979.SDObsoleteCAUTION - Not suitable for use in gasoline-powered automobile engines built after 1971. Use in more modern engines may cause unsatisfactory performance or equipment harm.SCObsoleteCAUTION - Not suitable for use in gasoline-powered automobile engines built after 1967. Use in more modern engines may cause unsatisfactory performance or equipment harm.SBObsoleteCAUTION - Not suitable for use in gasoline-powered automobile engines built after 1951. Use in more modern engines may cause unsatisfactory performance or equipment harm.SAObsoleteCAUTION - Not suitable for use in gasoline-powered automobile engines built after 1930. Use in more modern engines may cause unsatisfactory performance or equipment harm.