Very interesting point about the frame. I'm wondering if you have actually ridden on at least sat on a new Softail. I have sat on a FatBoy and Breakout in the showroom and in their stock configuration they are already fairy low. Unless one has a very small inseam, touching the ground is easy even without the optional lower seat. Also, since the floorboards and controls have been moved closer to the seat to improve ground clearance, the complaints I have been hearing is that there is less room than in the past. This would indicate that smaller riders would have an easy reach to the controls, at least on models with floorboards.
Man, you got that right. I'm tall, so fit is always an issue. But that said, I was always comfortable on the old Softails. Not so on the new ones. They are definitely made for smaller riders than the older bikes. My take on it is they are designed specifically for women. I can't imagine a new Deluxe being too tall for even a very short person.
I sat on the 2018 Slim, Deluxe and the breakout. On a 2017 Slim I was flatfoot with no problem, on the 2018 I was on tiptoe, same with the breakout.
I've seen the 2018 HD "lowering kit" - its a shock not as wide around - its under the seat. HD has made it not as wide around. It does very little. A shock under the seat cannot lower a bike with a solid one piece frame.
The problem is, the 2017 and previous softails had two shocks on the bottom of the bike. The swing arm was connected by a pivot bolt so to speak to the rest of the frame - it was not one with the frame - it pivoted separately - so you could raise or lower it, so lengthening or shortening the two shocks lowered or raised the bike. That's why you can "slam" an older softail. You won't be able to slam or even gently lower a 2018 one.
With a one piece frame, and the swingarm now part of the one piece frame - its set, you can't move it - there is now way to lower the one piece frame. Check out a pic of just the new frame and you'll see what I mean.
The other thing I don't like, is the rear fender is pretty high on some of the new bikes - how are you going to lower those? drill new holes into them to lower? I just like the rear fender a bit lower over the wheel.
I am sure they ride fantastic according to everyone's reviews. I'm not knocking them, but with a 29" inseam, I know what I need to do to set a Harley up for me - its always shocks, seat, and my boots with a 1 and 3/4 to 2" heel.
I will eagerly look forward to the 2019s or 2020s - I'm sure they've thought of this and will at some point come out with a lower frame. I also know that taller guys love the new taller frames so the new ones should be perfect for you tall guys.
Last edited by traffic jam; 10-17-2017 at 09:27 PM.
I sat on the 2018 Slim, Deluxe and the breakout. On a 2017 Slim I was flatfoot with no problem, on the 2018 I was on tiptoe, same with the breakout.
I've seen the 2018 HD "lowering kit" - its a shock not as wide around - its under the seat. HD has made it not as wide around. It does very little. A shock under the seat cannot lower a bike with a solid one piece frame.
I am going to disagree with you here. A shorter monoshock will lower the back end of a bike in just the same way that shorter dual shocks will do. The bike still has a swingarm with one point of attachment to the frame, then the shock attaches to the upper frame just as the dual shocks did - but with a totally different geometry. It's basically a triangle with the shock as one side.
Here's the HD part numbers for what they call their "Profile Low Suspension"
45500427 Profile Low Front Suspension - "this kit reduces the front suspension by over 1.0""
45000134 or 45000143 (depending on bike) - "this suspension lowers the seat height approximately 0.75" while preserving ride quality"
So there's a good lowering option for you right there. If you also added one of the "Reach" seats, "designed to position riders with a shorter inseam closer to the ground" then I would have thought that would get you where you need to be.
I sat on the 2018 Slim, Deluxe and the breakout. On a 2017 Slim I was flatfoot with no problem, on the 2018 I was on tiptoe, same with the breakout.
I've seen the 2018 HD "lowering kit" - its a shock not as wide around - its under the seat. HD has made it not as wide around. It does very little. A shock under the seat cannot lower a bike with a solid one piece frame.
The problem is, the 2017 and previous softails had two shocks on the bottom of the bike. The swing arm was connected by a pivot bolt so to speak to the rest of the frame - it was not one with the frame - it pivoted separately - so you could raise or lower it, so lengthening or shortening the two shocks lowered or raised the bike. That's why you can "slam" an older softail. You won't be able to slam or even gently lower a 2018 one.
With a one piece frame, and the swingarm now part of the one piece frame - its set, you can't move it - there is now way to lower the one piece frame. Check out a pic of just the new frame and you'll see what I mean.
The other thing I don't like, is the rear fender is pretty high on some of the new bikes - how are you going to lower those? drill new holes into them to lower? I just like the rear fender a bit lower over the wheel.
I am sure they ride fantastic according to everyone's reviews. I'm not knocking them, but with a 29" inseam, I know what I need to do to set a Harley up for me - its always shocks, seat, and my boots with a 1 and 3/4 to 2" heel.
I will eagerly look forward to the 2019s or 2020s - I'm sure they've thought of this and will at some point come out with a lower frame. I also know that taller guys love the new taller frames so the new ones should be perfect for you tall guys.
I think you're misunderstanding the configuration of a Softail vs external shocks. Neither works like a hardtail-both have a swingarm and shock(s) that include a spring(s) to support the bike's weight. If you go with a different length shock on a traditional Dyna or Road King, the rear end raises or drops accordingly. It's the exact same thing with a monoshock "softail" type rear suspension. On both systems, the main issue is anything that sends the rear tire further up into the fender at rest, may need a stiffer setup to prevent it from bottoming out since the new suspension usually has to have a physical stop to prevent the rear tire from contacting the underside of the fender.
Lets say we have an imaginary RK-type bike that has an 11" shock with 3" of travel. We'll say that when fully compressed (bottomed out) the tire is an inch away from hitting the underside of the rear fender. If we drop the bike one inch with a 10" shock that has the same 3" travel, the top of the tire will scrub the fender, since it starts out an inch closer and can still go up 3". If you go with a 2½" travel shock it may bottom out a lot unless it has a stiffer spring rate to do the same job in ½" less stroke. Good OEM or aftermarket lowering kits will take all that into account, shortcuts seldom will.
Obvious exceptions would be rarities where the rear fender is attached to the suspension instead of the frame, and goes up/down with the tire like the old Kawasaki 800 Drifter.
Thanks Glen, I understand how external and earlier softail shocks work.
So maybe I'm missing something here.
So, here's the new 2018 Chassis. Harley says its all one piece now. Note, the swing arm is solidly attached to the front.
Here it is under the seat, it looks pretty solid to me.
So are we now saying its not a 1 piece frame? The shock under the seat can raise and lower the back of the bike? I'm not seeing it, I'll have to look into it more.
But looking at it tucked under the seat above - it seems to be sitting in a triangle of steel. I don't see the frame under the seat being able to move depending on shock size.
This one seems pretty solid though:
I guess I'm just not seeing how the shock under the seat, surrounded by steel that looks like it can't be lenghtened or shortened can raise or lower the bike.
All Harley's lowering kit does, if you look at the side view of the top pic where you see the shock above and below the frame, is it makes a shock that doesn't stick up above the frame as much, so your seat can go a little lower. It does nothing to lower the bike.
Ok, if I'm wrong, I admit it, I know you guys know more than me I need to research monoshocks more.
Last edited by traffic jam; 10-18-2017 at 10:16 AM.
Yeah that. If it wasn't the swingarm wouldn't swing!
And the Profile Low suspension does drop the height - by 1" at the front, and 0.75" at the back. The rear is a shorter shock that fits exactly where the stock one does. It doesn't simply move the base of the seat pan down.
But if you also get the "reach" seat, then that moves the seat position down - in addition to the reduction in height you would get from the Profile Low suspension.
So with both of those, you'd probably see about a 2" reduction in seat height.
10-17-2017 | 02:41 PM
I need to research monoshocks more.
