Hi, I have been reading this discussion with a lot of interest and thought it might be interesting to share my own experience on this topic. I live in Belgium and have had motorcycles since I got my license when I turned 23. Mostly sports bikes -always 2 cyls- and my last bike was a Voxan Cafe racer. Until recently, I had never owned nor ridden a Harley. In my mid 30s most of my riding buddies switched from sports bikes to cruisers. My buddies went out and got themselves Diavels, Triumph Thunderbird Storm, Triumph Rocket, street glides and Fat Bobs. For me, there were only two options, either the Thunderbird storm or the 2017 model fat bob - I love the muscle car looks. And it took me 2 years of indecisiveness to finally make a choice. If I would have gone for modern technology and power I would have clearly chosen the Thunderbird with its aggressive looks, 156nm and approx 100 HP. But instead I chose the fat bob. Why? Well honestly because Even for someone that doesn't have a Harley experienced background Harley is the original and the rest are copies. For me the 2014 - 2017 Fat Bob oozes heritage and has an undeniable 1979s Dodge Challenger muscle car appearance (something the new FB definitely does not have). The fact that the other bikes were technologically superior wasn't the most important factor. If I hadn't bought my 2017 FB and after seeing the 2018 line up, I am not sure that I would have gone for a Harley. I am not a softail guy, The street bob looks wrong, the low rider just looks way off and the new Fat Bob is a poor attempt to have a go at the Vmax or Diavel. As such the Thunderbird has the same modern technology, a proven engine track record, more power and looks more old timer muscle car. Now I do realize I am not the millenial customer HD might be looking for, but still I was a converted client. With the new line up there would have been no possibility to convert me and I feel the differentiation with bikes like the Thunderbird is smaller than ever before. So small in fact that there is no real reason to not choose a Triumph now. This may only be a side effect and maybe only valid in Europe, but it feels very strange to me for a company like Harley to make itself more equal to the competition, instead of clearly distinguishing itself.

 

Yeah I saw one of these without the windshield and bags, and I liked the look of it a lot more.

 

The new Yamaha is THE heaviest touring bike made. Something like 963 lbs.

 

I fail to see how a 963 lb bike can have many (if any) advantages over a 625 lb bike. In terms of weight only, why would someone want such a behemoth?

 

Manufacturers can call their bikes whatever they want but it's the DNA of the bike that determines what type they truly are. BMW can call it a Roadster, or whatever else they want. The bottom line is that BMW R1200R is a naked standard bike (aka Roadsters, Naked, & Street Fighters) that's built off a sport bike platform, just as is the Kawasaki Z900, The Yamaha FZ09, Ducati Monster, Suzuki SV650/1000, Triumph Speed Triple, and the rest of them. Same goes for the K1600B. Go ahead and call it a bagger but its DNA and everything else about it proves it's a sport tourer. If Kawasaki advertised the Concours as a bagger would you compare it to HD's baggers as apples to apples? I wouldn't.

Take that R1200R on a 300 to 400 mile ride and tell me how your *** feels. Bet it doesn't feel so great even after 200 miles. My Z1000 has similar seat width/style and ergo's. The longest ride I did on it was a 900 mile 2 day trip from NC to CT....my *** was on FIRE! A ride easily done on a Softail. The Softail cruisers have a different DNA. They're built for a more comfortable sit back cruising position and better suited for much longer rides than bikes like the R1200R. The fact that they've now made them better performing bikes does not mean they're trying to be like the R1200R. They simply improved an old and tired line of motorcycles. Cruiser riders appreciate better performance too, but don't necessarily need sport bike type performance.

If I had to choose between a R1200R and the new Softail Low Rider I'd have to ask myself why type of riding will I be using it for. If I were to use it simply for a short ride bike....some mountain carving, commuting, blasting through some country roads, I may choose the BMW because I would appreciate the sport bike type performance. But if I were looking to do longer rides, 2 up riding, and even commuting and short distance, as well as some spirited riding, I would hands down choose the new Softail Low Rider.

The new Harley's are still Harley's. Did you expect them to continue to produce bikes that look exactly the same for the next 50 years and not improve the overall quality of their bikes? In my opinion HD got a much needed facelift and while doing so they also produced better engineered bikes. These new softail's look fresh. They are faster, lighter and handle better.....and they still look like Harley's.

 

Ditto. HD did a disservice to the line.

Same here but with the LowS. Glad I got one of the last my dealer had.

 

You mention the R1200R. Which is specifically a naked standard. The K1600 series, the R1200RT and the R1200GS, however are designed for long-haul rides and lots of time in the saddle. The K1600GTL is by all measures a touring bike. The K1600B has similar ergos. The R1200RT is said to have roomier ergos than the K bikes. The R1200GS has a relaxed and upright seating position.

None of the above are as sporty as the Kawasaki Concourse or the Yammi FJR. Nor are they based on a cruiser like Harley baggers.

 

I bought a 17 wide glide and was glad I did after I heard about the discontinuation of the line, not sure if it will make them any more valuable but they ain't making anymore of them

 

I mentioned the R1200R only because Nevada72 compared them to the new Softail's. I agree the R1200RT is a true touring bike, and although it might not be as sporty as the Kawasaki Concours (I don't know for sure because I never rode one) it's still built off a sport bike platform.

The R1200GS is an adventure bike and built for a different type of rider.....for those who go off the beaten path and need a bike that will track well on dirt, mud, gravel and rough terrain. Basically it's the adventure bike version of the R1200R. The taller bars give the GS the more upright position but there will be no stretching out your legs on long rides with those rear-set foot controls...I'm still not convinced how comfy that bike would be on a 400 mile day. Standard seat height is 34" on the GS, and 31" on its sibling R1200R. If you definitely want one of these two bikes I'd go with the R1200R if you won't be going off road. Neither are the best option for long distance riding though. If I'm not mistaken, you do quite a bit of long distance touring. Comfort would be very high on my priority list if I were you and I really think a cruiser, standard touring, or sport touring bike would serve you better than the BMW R1200R or R1200GS.

That's my take on it. I love all bikes so this isn't a brand war for me.

 

I am with you about loving many different brands of motorcycles. I've had my eye on the BMW bikes because of their versatility. The R1200GS seems to be the Swiss army knife of motorcycles. Of the bikes mentioned, the R1200R is the least comfortable from my limited experience. The GS has several seat and suspension options that can adjust the height of the bike. I sat on one I can flat foot with boots on and I'm only 5'9". Also, there are tons of GS riders that rarely go off-road and do multi-thousand mile trips with comfort. There are highway pegs for the GS that allow for multiple leg positions and the ability to stretch. Plus you have the ability to stand on the pegs to stretch.

I've been deciding between the RT and GS for my next bike. Equally equipped the more or less similarly priced. Both well within the wheelhouse of Harley pricing.

I have loved HD all my life, through the Shovelhead/Ironhead bikes to even the Twinkie bikes. This is the first time I am truly disappointed. To me the Sportster is outdated and everything else has lost its MOJO compared to what they used to be and not overly competitive compared to the rest of the premium market.

I'm 48 years old. I'm hardly done with riding. I have at least 20-25 years of riding left. I think Harley-Davidson has lost me. That's unfortunate for me and for them.