View Poll Results: After seeing the 2018 Models are you now planning on buying one?
Yes, I like what I see
260
36.41%
No, I don't like any of the new models
454
63.59%
Voters: 714. You may not vote on this poll
After seeing the 2018 line-up, Are you going to buy?
#472
09-02-2017 | 01:01 PM
Supporter
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 6,856
Likes: 3,717
From: St. Charles, MO
(My emphasis.)
This is where I am right now. I LOVE my 2015 Road Glide Special. It's the fifth Harley I've owned and the best bike I've ever owned.
Unfortunately, I started adding up what I've got in it, and compared to what I can get in another brand of touring bike for less money, and I have to ask myself...why would I ever buy another Harley?
I'll tell you what is really, really turning me off, and it's all coming together in my head as I look at the 2018 Road Glide Ultra and Road Glide CVO:
Every single Harley-Davidson motorcycle has been carefully, strategically, thoughtfully, deliberately crippled. The Motor Company's business model is to keep off carefully selected features and functions that most riders will want, and then simply put them in the P&A catalog at exorbitant prices. Crap seats, crap windshields, and no features like heated seats and grips that come standard on every other $25,000 touring motorcycle in the world. Not on a Harley. "That's another thousand". Hundreds of dollars? Bullshit. It's thousands.
Here's a perfect example: the taillights, brake lights, and turn signals on my bike. A $25,000 motorcycle, and some of the most important safety related lights on the bike each have one flashlight bulb in it. Essentially the same brake lights and taillights that a Duo-Glide had. Oh, and a reflector from a bicycle.
So, I bought LED turn signal lights for the front, $90, plus LED turn signal and brake lights for the rear, $90, and LED lights for the back of the saddlebags, for better visibility from the rear, because I do ride at night. $190.
But, wait, here's the part that totally pissed me off: When I went to wire up the $190 lights for the rear of the saddlebags, so I don't get rear ended at night, the plugs were already there. The screwing that the customer gets is built in, from the get-go. We're sheep.
For exactly the same price as a 2018 Road Glide Special, the new Yamaha touring bike has so many of the EXACT features and functions that touring riders want, STANDARD, that I swear, I'm going to have to make up a spreadsheet to be able to have a conversation with friends and explain everything that's included, without leaving anything out.
Ok, I'm not into blacked out parts, and I sure as hell have NO IDEA what they were thinking when they put a 21" front wheel on a touring bike, (Ok, if they put a 30" wheel on it, I'd be in. No, wait...I wouldn't.), and I guess I'm one of the weirdos who think paint should be shiny, but, I swear, I'm not complaining about style. Different strokes for different folks. If I have to wait to see what the 2019's look like, I can wait.
But I'm done bending over so they can screw me by making me buy $5,000 worth of what should be standard features on a $27,000 touring bike.
Harley-Davidson does one thing, and one thing only, better than any other motorcycle brand: "It's a Harley". And if customers ever decide that the cost to own "a Harley" is no longer worth it, the MoCo is going to be in trouble.
This is where I am right now. I LOVE my 2015 Road Glide Special. It's the fifth Harley I've owned and the best bike I've ever owned.
Unfortunately, I started adding up what I've got in it, and compared to what I can get in another brand of touring bike for less money, and I have to ask myself...why would I ever buy another Harley?
I'll tell you what is really, really turning me off, and it's all coming together in my head as I look at the 2018 Road Glide Ultra and Road Glide CVO:
Every single Harley-Davidson motorcycle has been carefully, strategically, thoughtfully, deliberately crippled. The Motor Company's business model is to keep off carefully selected features and functions that most riders will want, and then simply put them in the P&A catalog at exorbitant prices. Crap seats, crap windshields, and no features like heated seats and grips that come standard on every other $25,000 touring motorcycle in the world. Not on a Harley. "That's another thousand". Hundreds of dollars? Bullshit. It's thousands.
Here's a perfect example: the taillights, brake lights, and turn signals on my bike. A $25,000 motorcycle, and some of the most important safety related lights on the bike each have one flashlight bulb in it. Essentially the same brake lights and taillights that a Duo-Glide had. Oh, and a reflector from a bicycle.
So, I bought LED turn signal lights for the front, $90, plus LED turn signal and brake lights for the rear, $90, and LED lights for the back of the saddlebags, for better visibility from the rear, because I do ride at night. $190.
But, wait, here's the part that totally pissed me off: When I went to wire up the $190 lights for the rear of the saddlebags, so I don't get rear ended at night, the plugs were already there. The screwing that the customer gets is built in, from the get-go. We're sheep.
For exactly the same price as a 2018 Road Glide Special, the new Yamaha touring bike has so many of the EXACT features and functions that touring riders want, STANDARD, that I swear, I'm going to have to make up a spreadsheet to be able to have a conversation with friends and explain everything that's included, without leaving anything out.
Ok, I'm not into blacked out parts, and I sure as hell have NO IDEA what they were thinking when they put a 21" front wheel on a touring bike, (Ok, if they put a 30" wheel on it, I'd be in. No, wait...I wouldn't.), and I guess I'm one of the weirdos who think paint should be shiny, but, I swear, I'm not complaining about style. Different strokes for different folks. If I have to wait to see what the 2019's look like, I can wait.
But I'm done bending over so they can screw me by making me buy $5,000 worth of what should be standard features on a $27,000 touring bike.
Harley-Davidson does one thing, and one thing only, better than any other motorcycle brand: "It's a Harley". And if customers ever decide that the cost to own "a Harley" is no longer worth it, the MoCo is going to be in trouble.
Seats: I've owned five other bikes before Harley. My first bike - a Honda Shadow 750 - is the ONLY one I didn't replace the stock seat, and only because I didn't have enough cash to replace a seat (besides, I was young and had a hard backside).
Accessories - Harley does this, IMHO, because MOST Harley riders WANT DIFFERENT THINGS. For example - Only RGS, I HATE the look of the saddlebag lights. If I wanted to look like a UFO from behind, I'd look elsewhere. I'm actually impressed that MOST accessories have the plugs ready to go, making install super easy.
One of Harley's most endearing qualities is and always has been the ability to tweak your bike to be yours uniquely. A blank canvas of sorts. The broad P & A catalog is a testament to that, as is the wide aftermarket supported by Harley Davidson motorcycles.
Buy what excites you; buy what makes your heart smile when you look out into the garage, or throw your leg over it. I know, for me, that has been a Harley, and looks like it will be for awhile yet.
I will add this about 2018 IMHO... One big mis-step is that there is now a sizable gap between a Sportster and a Lowrider - the least expensive Softail available. They are now really missing that $11k or $12k entry "big twin".
THAT, I think, WILL bite them.
Last edited by ChickinOnaChain; 09-03-2017 at 06:40 PM.
#473
09-02-2017 | 03:22 PM
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,056
Likes: 250
From: Connecticut
I don't know why some guys are complaining about the 2018 prices. If they compare with the 2017 prices they'll see that some bikes went down in price.
2017 Breakout, $19,299 - $19,699
2018 Breakout, $18,999 - $19,399
2017 Deluxe, $18,549 - $19,299
2018 Deluxe, $17,999 - $18,749
The price of the 2018 Fat Boy and the 2018 Slim fall between the price of the 2017 regular models and the S models. The Street Bob and Low Rider's price jumped just a few hundred dollars. The Fat Bob and Heritage Classic had the most significant jump in price....a $900 to $1500 increase.
When compared to last year I think the 2018's are fairly priced. Better bikes for just a little more, or less in some cases.
#474
09-02-2017 | 03:33 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,807
Likes: 5,949
From: WI
So I had said way early in this thread that I would like to check out both the new Yamaha Star Venture and the BMW K1600 B. Had a chance to check out the BMW today. All though it's a pretty sleek looking bike, once I sat on it, I new it wasn't for me. Didn't care for how huge the tank was and how far out in front of you the front end seemed. I'm sure it's a rocket ship, but it also will not be coming with an optional rear tour pack. Found out today that the Yamaha is now being held back until Dec due to some snag in production. The BMW shop also had Indian... No Indian bike even comes close to my styling likes. They had 2 Touring Victory left. Not bad, but again still just not quite my style. The only thing I would have considered buying there (They had Ducati) was the Ducati Scrambler Cafe Racer. I would have got it for bumming around if I was in the market for a 2nd bike like that. Man Ducati has some powerful looking bikes... Damb... The other thing is the shop is 40 miles from the house. The other closest one is about 90. So if you had to get the bikes worked on that would be inconvenient.
So that being said, if when the time comes I want a new bike, I'm still leaning at a 18 or 19 Limited.
So that being said, if when the time comes I want a new bike, I'm still leaning at a 18 or 19 Limited.
Last edited by jamala00; 09-02-2017 at 03:36 PM.
#475
09-02-2017 | 03:55 PM
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,056
Likes: 250
From: Connecticut
So I had said way early in this thread that I would like to check out both the new Yamaha Star Venture and the BMW K1600 B. Had a chance to check out the BMW today. All though it's a pretty sleek looking bike, once I sat on it, I new it wasn't for me. Didn't care for how huge the tank was and how far out in front of you the front end seemed. I'm sure it's a rocket ship, but it also will not be coming with an optional rear tour pack. Found out today that the Yamaha is now being held back until Dec due to some snag in production. The BMW shop also had Indian... No Indian bike even comes close to my styling likes. They had 2 Touring Victory left. Not bad, but again still just not quite my style. The only thing I would have considered buying there (They had Ducati) was the Ducati Scrambler Cafe Racer. I would have got it for bumming around if I was in the market for a 2nd bike like that. Man Ducati has some powerful looking bikes... Damb... The other thing is the shop is 40 miles from the house. The other closest one is about 90. So if you had to get the bikes worked on that would be inconvenient
So that being said, if when the time comes I want a new bike, I'm still leaning at a 18 or 19 Limited.
So that being said, if when the time comes I want a new bike, I'm still leaning at a 18 or 19 Limited.
#476
09-02-2017 | 04:01 PM
6th Gear
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 13
Likes: 4
From: Netherlands
#477
09-02-2017 | 05:07 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 42,744
Likes: 26,256
From: PNW
I'm not a touring bike kind of guy but i try to appreciate bikes for what they are. Took a look at the Yamaha Star Venture after reading your post. I think I really like the fairing. Looks nice looking at it head on. At 25k-27k it's priced right with the HD touring bikes. The BMW K1600 B is a gorgeous bike but that's a sport touring bike....totally different than the Yamaha or HD touring bikes. Got to be fun as hell to ride.....not more fun than the Ducati's though. lol
#478
09-02-2017 | 05:20 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,807
Likes: 5,949
From: WI
The 1600B is not a sport touring bike. it's BMW's foray into the "bagger" market with feet forward controls. I get why you would say it's a sport touring bike because it's fast and handles well. But the relaxed riding position is what dictates the "bagger" designation. The K1600GT is their sport touring bike.
Last edited by jamala00; 09-02-2017 at 05:48 PM.
#479
09-02-2017 | 05:33 PM
Road Master
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 887
Likes: 30
From: Queen Creek, AZ
(My emphasis.)
Every single Harley-Davidson motorcycle has been carefully, strategically, thoughtfully, deliberately crippled. The Motor Company's business model is to keep off carefully selected features and functions that most riders will want, and then simply put them in the P&A catalog at exorbitant prices. Crap seats, crap windshields, and no features like heated seats and grips that come standard on every other $25,000 touring motorcycle in the world. Not on a Harley. "That's another thousand". Hundreds of dollars? Bullshit. It's thousands.
Every single Harley-Davidson motorcycle has been carefully, strategically, thoughtfully, deliberately crippled. The Motor Company's business model is to keep off carefully selected features and functions that most riders will want, and then simply put them in the P&A catalog at exorbitant prices. Crap seats, crap windshields, and no features like heated seats and grips that come standard on every other $25,000 touring motorcycle in the world. Not on a Harley. "That's another thousand". Hundreds of dollars? Bullshit. It's thousands.
