I had to correct my post. He actually has a 2017 Road King Special that he loves. I forgot about that one. So he obviously is cool with the M8, and he likes the touring line still, other than the high prices. Mainly because it's largely unchanged.
My thoughts on his opinion are - agree or disagree, he represents the current buying demographic that made HD a success. He's 50 years old and has owned nothing but Harleys. He and I have, for years, discussed whether or not Harley should evolve. He has been steadfast in his opposition to it. He maintains that people who buy Harleys are buying a 57 Chevy. No one else makes one and it's what attracts buyers to Harley Davidson - the nostalgia, and the unique feel that goes with it.
I, coming from a metric backround, disagreed. I felt improvement was needed, within reason. I liked my 2011 UC, but it was sorely lacking in the power department. My 2014 SGS laid that complaint to rest. It's not perfect, but it does a really good job and still has that Harley feel. But I will say, it had noticeably less "Harley-ness" than the 11 UC. Imo, just the right amount that it was much improved, but still a Harley. The only thing I would like to see improved is the suspension. I really thought they were going to the monoshock, common core frame to share with the Dyna line. I was very interested to see those bikes.
I haven't ridden the new bikes. I was going to today, but it turns out the demo rides at the Pilgrim Rd plant are for HOG members only. So they missed out on their chance to impress not only me, but the audience they are supposedly trying to attract - new Harley buyers (who obviously wouldn't be HOG members). Pretty stupid imo.
On the Deluxe - I really don't like the turn signals either. i don't think tey fit the context of the bike. Like drawing a mustache on the Mona Lisa -
if harley would have made this a harley wide glide....all they would have to do is put a wide glide raked forks, and a different headlight on it... i would love it..i don,t like the headlight(too bulky), thick forks for sure..but if i was going to buy a 2018 model..this probably would be it, though i have not seen the lineup in person yet
I wont be buying one, but I rode a FatBoy with the 114, wow. It was very impressive. Suspension and motor were both very smooth. Plenty of power and torque for me.
This is where I am right now. I LOVE my 2015 Road Glide Special. It's the fifth Harley I've owned and the best bike I've ever owned.
Unfortunately, I started adding up what I've got in it, and compared to what I can get in another brand of touring bike for less money, and I have to ask myself...why would I ever buy another Harley?
I'll tell you what is really, really turning me off, and it's all coming together in my head as I look at the 2018 Road Glide Ultra and Road Glide CVO:
Every single Harley-Davidson motorcycle has been carefully, strategically, thoughtfully, deliberately crippled. The Motor Company's business model is to keep off carefully selected features and functions that most riders will want, and then simply put them in the P&A catalog at exorbitant prices. Crap seats, crap windshields, and no features like heated seats and grips that come standard on every other $25,000 touring motorcycle in the world. Not on a Harley. "That's another thousand". Hundreds of dollars? Bullshit. It's thousands.
Here's a perfect example: the taillights, brake lights, and turn signals on my bike. A $25,000 motorcycle, and some of the most important safety related lights on the bike each have one flashlight bulb in it. Essentially the same brake lights and taillights that a Duo-Glide had. Oh, and a reflector from a bicycle.
So, I bought LED turn signal lights for the front, $90, plus LED turn signal and brake lights for the rear, $90, and LED lights for the back of the saddlebags, for better visibility from the rear, because I do ride at night. $190.
But, wait, here's the part that totally pissed me off: When I went to wire up the $190 lights for the rear of the saddlebags, so I don't get rear ended at night, the plugs were already there. The screwing that the customer gets is built in, from the get-go.We're sheep.
For exactly the same price as a 2018 Road Glide Special, the new Yamaha touring bike has so many of the EXACT features and functions that touring riders want, STANDARD, that I swear, I'm going to have to make up a spreadsheet to be able to have a conversation with friends and explain everything that's included, without leaving anything out.
Ok, I'm not into blacked out parts, and I sure as hell have NO IDEA what they were thinking when they put a 21" front wheel on a touring bike, (Ok, if they put a 30" wheel on it, I'd be in. No, wait...I wouldn't.), and I guess I'm one of the weirdos who think paint should be shiny, but, I swear, I'm not complaining about style. Different strokes for different folks. If I have to wait to see what the 2019's look like, I can wait.
But I'm done bending over so they can screw me by making me buy $5,000 worth of what should be standard features on a $27,000 touring bike.
Harley-Davidson does one thing, and one thing only, better than any other motorcycle brand: "It's a Harley". And if customers ever decide that the cost to own "a Harley" is no longer worth it, the MoCo is going to be in trouble.
Well said.
Honestly, this thread, among others, really has me thinking. I'm really not a "doom and gloom" person. In fact, I'm more a "head in the sand" guy. But I really have to wonder if Harley isn't at a turning point in history. They have massive overhead built from huge sales increases that started in the late 90s. That trend continued for a long time until 2007/8. That difficult economic time started a ripple in Harleys finances that they have been recovering from ever since imo. That recovery has included a steady improvement of the breed, which most of us recognize and appreciate. But now they are at a saturation point I believe, where any further improvement takes away the Harley-ness of the brand. Old school guys are bailing due to changes and cost. Not just the outrageous MSRP, but the gratuitous bending over for items that should be standard, as mentioned by Idaho Hacker. New prospects are intrigued (maybe) by the marketing aimed at them and the bikes. But they are one of a few brands that they are considering. I just don't see this ending well for the Moco.
All that aside, I'm going to go demo some of the new bikes today. I'm sure I'll be impressed by improvements in handling and power. But the new line is too small for me. I suspect the are built for women and undernourished Millennials. As such, I won't be buying. But I will go for a free ride.
After seeing the new 18 sporty, I'm glad I got the 17.
I don't feel that I missed out on anything special with the new model, in hindsight I think removing the Harley badge off the gas tank makes it look cheap.
But, wait, here's the part that totally pissed me off: When I went to wire up the $190 lights for the rear of the saddlebags, so I don't get rear ended at night, the plugs were already there. The screwing that the customer gets is built in, from the get-go. We're sheep.
The plugs were probably installed for the convenience of the dealer - not for you. How many customers pay the dealer to install the add-ons?
But, wait, here's the part that totally pissed me off: When I went to wire up the $190 lights for the rear of the saddlebags, so I don't get rear ended at night, the plugs were already there. The screwing that the customer gets is built in, from the get-go. We're sheep.
The plugs were probably installed for the convenience of the dealer - not for you. How many customers pay the dealer to install the add-ons?
You missed my point, completely. It doesn't matter if the plugs are there for the convenience of the service tech, or the convenience of the customer.
The important point is that they were already there, planned ahead, to replace the **** 1962 flashlight bulbs that SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN THERE on a $25,000 motorcycle, with LED lights that should have been there in the first place.
We all know what "planned obsolescence" means. This is even worse, it's a planned screwing. The MoCo has planned out, in advance, how they're going to screw us, and the screwing is built into the bike when it leaves the production line.
Apart from that we evaluated the bikes on appearance alone. An old school Harley friend of mine met us and he straight up hates the bikes. He said basically every one of them looked like Yamaha's interpretation of what a Harley is.
Good for him. he doesn't "own" Harley just because he's "old school."
he sounds a lot like the kid who thinks he "owns" his favorite band's sound, and gets all butt-hurt when they change direction. "Sell-out!" They don't owe you anything.
Originally Posted by nevada72
He pointed out the satin finish on the Fat Boy motor and exhaust. We both agreed it looked like the finish on a Kohler faucet. He also pointed out how the staggered exhaust was so closely blended that it looked like one big, ugly exhaust instead of a cool set of staggered pipes.
The Fat Boy Lo always had satin finish on the brightwork. Forget about that already?
if harley would have made this a harley wide glide....all they would have to do is put a wide glide raked forks, and a different headlight on it... i would love it..i don,t like the headlight(too bulky), thick forks for sure..but if i was going to buy a 2018 model..this probably would be it, though i have not seen the lineup in person yet
Beautiful in person even the headlight, it all works together well with the wide front end. The one I looked at and sat on was gloss black. Love the wheels, the satin finish on everything too. Ill buy one at some point.
This is where I am right now. I LOVE my 2015 Road Glide Special. It's the fifth Harley I've owned and the best bike I've ever owned.
Unfortunately, I started adding up what I've got in it, and compared to what I can get in another brand of touring bike for less money, and I have to ask myself...why would I ever buy another Harley?
I'll tell you what is really, really turning me off, and it's all coming together in my head as I look at the 2018 Road Glide Ultra and Road Glide CVO:
Every single Harley-Davidson motorcycle has been carefully, strategically, thoughtfully, deliberately crippled. The Motor Company's business model is to keep off carefully selected features and functions that most riders will want, and then simply put them in the P&A catalog at exorbitant prices. Crap seats, crap windshields, and no features like heated seats and grips that come standard on every other $25,000 touring motorcycle in the world. Not on a Harley. "That's another thousand". Hundreds of dollars? Bullshit. It's thousands.
Here's a perfect example: the taillights, brake lights, and turn signals on my bike. A $25,000 motorcycle, and some of the most important safety related lights on the bike each have one flashlight bulb in it. Essentially the same brake lights and taillights that a Duo-Glide had. Oh, and a reflector from a bicycle.
So, I bought LED turn signal lights for the front, $90, plus LED turn signal and brake lights for the rear, $90, and LED lights for the back of the saddlebags, for better visibility from the rear, because I do ride at night. $190.
But, wait, here's the part that totally pissed me off: When I went to wire up the $190 lights for the rear of the saddlebags, so I don't get rear ended at night, the plugs were already there. The screwing that the customer gets is built in, from the get-go.We're sheep.
For exactly the same price as a 2018 Road Glide Special, the new Yamaha touring bike has so many of the EXACT features and functions that touring riders want, STANDARD, that I swear, I'm going to have to make up a spreadsheet to be able to have a conversation with friends and explain everything that's included, without leaving anything out.
Ok, I'm not into blacked out parts, and I sure as hell have NO IDEA what they were thinking when they put a 21" front wheel on a touring bike, (Ok, if they put a 30" wheel on it, I'd be in. No, wait...I wouldn't.), and I guess I'm one of the weirdos who think paint should be shiny, but, I swear, I'm not complaining about style. Different strokes for different folks. If I have to wait to see what the 2019's look like, I can wait.
But I'm done bending over so they can screw me by making me buy $5,000 worth of what should be standard features on a $27,000 touring bike.
Harley-Davidson does one thing, and one thing only, better than any other motorcycle brand: "It's a Harley". And if customers ever decide that the cost to own "a Harley" is no longer worth it, the MoCo is going to be in trouble.
If I want to own a bike that looks like everyone else, sure buy a Vulcan, save some money. When is the last time you saw a stock Harley? Harley has the largest aftermarket for a reason. They build a basic bike and the owner finishes the bike to their needs and preference. That Harley is an extension of the owner. What do Vulcan owners do? Add some grips, maybe a cup holder? You can line up 100 Harley owners, put their bikes in a line up, and by the sound only they can tell when their bike is fired up. Does it cost to have a personalized bike, sure it does. Someone mentioned Indian. Go try to customize your Indian, again not much out there to make your bike "your bike".
As for the creature comforts... Harley pride includes being able to work on your own bike and Harley bikes were not the most technical for a long time...where you needed an engineering degree to change out a light bulb. KISS applied to HD...now days things are more complicated to repair or upgrade and often require a tech. The more creature comfort crap you add onto a bike, the more complicated it gets and the more difficult it is for the owner who likes to spin their own wrenches.
As for colors, denim colors are fine. Color is a personal preference. I don't care for the ones that look like a bag of glitter dumped into the clear coat. More color options are great, I can pick and choose what I like to fit my style.
09-02-2017 | 04:24 AM
