I think Triumph is also a main competitor here - their modern classics line is simply that, old school looking bikes with modern performance. They also offer big cruisers. I went from a 2005 Bonneville T100 (the previous air cooled generation) to my current ride, a 1996 Fatboy but love the thought of a Bonneville Bobber in the garage next to it at some point down the track...

Thinking about this more over the last few days, how much trouble are Harley really in with the new lineup? They still have classic styled bikes like Deluxe, Slim, and Heritage (and Road King) that now have the M8 and new frame design but still maintain the oldschool looks - the purists will gravitate towards those models, and these models will still look the same in years to come. That's catering for riders looking for more 'traditional' styling.

To cater for more modern tastes, they have the Fat Bob etc and I think dyna models that have been softail-ized will probably be dropped or get big facelifts over the next couple of years to keep things fresh for this market segment.

 

I like what they have done with the bikes, but I'm not in the market. My 2015 Ultra Limited will do me fine for quite a while, only have 20,000 miles on it.

 

I totally get what you're saying. But you also said that they need to hang onto their Harley-ness. I'm not sure how they can become more competitive while doing that. Harleys, for the most part, didn't compete as motorcycles in the performance sense anyway. But somehow they made bikes that people wanted to buy, so they competed very well in that regard. But now they need to contend with a paradigm shift. The People who buy Harleys to have Harleys are aging out of the market. The people they want to attract look at other brands that market well like Triumph, Ducati, and BMW. If they have less money, the big 4 have nice bikes to offer.

Personally I think they are pricing themselves out of business in today's world, because that pisses off even the die-hards who like Harley just because it's Harley. Sure, some of the bikes didn't go up too much. But the Low Rider with single disk and cruise seems like they aren't providing a lot of bike for the money.

And as mentioned, with all the changes being made, there's the resale factor. One can't deny that all the changes being made devalue the older bikes. That combined with an absolute deluge of used bikes available. How many threads do we have going on here about that? I simply will not take the hit necessary to acquire a new bike by trading mine in. Could I? Sure. But I expect my bike to cost a certain amount per year to ride. My 2011 EGC cost me under $1000/year to ride when I factor what I paid vs what I sold it for - $2500 difference. Now if I traded, it would cost me a LOT more because I would be lucky to get $13k on my trade and a like replacement would be $25k so $12k/3 = $4k/year! That's absolutely outrageous. There is no way I will do that.

In the end I have absolutely no advice to give the Moco. I can only say what I personally would want. And they're not far off. Give me a Super Glide with good suspension and the 114 motor and 6 gallon tank. Add twin disks, cruise, nice paint for about $15k. They have all the parts between the Fat Bob and Low Rider. I wouldn't even bother trading my SGS. I would just buy it as a second bike.

 

Some good information on the new soft tail frame and M8 engine here.

 

The Diavel is a unique bike with no real label. Some call is a naked sport bike, others call it a power cruiser. I think most people who are looking for traditional cruiser looks wont consider the Diavel. The base 2018 Diavel will probably sell for $22k or more, the X above $25k. The Low Rider & Street Bob are at $14.5 and $15k. The Fat Bob $17-$19k (depending on the motor), everything else in the softail line starts at under $19k. I don't feel the Diavel is a direct competitor for HD.

Moto Guzzi make pretty good but I'm not convinced they'll perform better than the new softail's. I rode a Eldorado once and it was fun and smooth, but I'll bet the new softails will at least perform as well. Moto Guzzi's pricing in more comparable to HD's than the Diavel.

BMW touring bikes are Sport Touring bikes, based off a sport bike platform, a completely different animal than a touring cruiser. Shouldn't even be in the conversation.

I think HD's real competition is big v-twin Japanese cruisers, Triumph and Indian, and I think these new Softails will perform as good or better in many cases.

 

You make good points.

I will tell you this, if the new Softails move out as well as a MG Eldorado, I'll buy one. I test rode one too, and it was hands down faster than any Harley I have ridden except for the V-Rod, which I think it was on par with.

 

Indian only makes two types of bikes, the big Chiefs and the Scout. They don't have a mid-size cruiser like the Dyna/Softails. That's what the Indian fans have been wanting from Polaris but so far have not gotten. So in that category Indian is not a competitor...yet.

 

I think the Indian Chief, Chief Classic and Chief Darkhorse competes directly with some of the softail line, Fat Boy, Slim, Heritage and Deluxe. But yeah, doesn't seem that they have something between the Chief line and the Scout that compares to the Low Rider, Street Bob and Fat Bob.

 

I don't think the Diavel will jump that much in price. Plus the Low Rider starts at $14,999. Minor details? Probably. Yet the Fat Boy starts at 18,999.

I am willing to look at several different types of bikes for my next bike. The BMW R1200RT might be a sport-tourer, but it's truly a comfortable long hauler. The K1600GTL is a real touring rig.

My point is that there is a lot of excellent competition out there. Since Harley-Davidson has intentionally taken themselves off their island, they are fair game for everything else that's available and should be judged accordingly.

 

Seeing as how BMW doesn't do V twins, their only line which might have cross over with HD would the R 9 T variants. I owned a first year R 9 T but wanted to get back into longer distance riding. Hands down that bike was stupid fun. BMWs boxer twins are so much lighter in weight than about any V other than Ducati and backed up with the hp and torque to make them move.

If people think HD is priced too high then Indian is just as bad if not worse as it gets sillier when you look at their accessory pricing