Counter-steering
#851
10-22-2016 | 11:24 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,234
Likes: 561
From: Vegas, baby!
Anyone who has ever ridden a bicycle has instinctively counter steered. If you've ridden your motorcycle on an interstate, you've counter steered.
Another member guessed you might not even own a bike...Good guess.
I'm too lazy to read 800 responses...I'm going with Troll.
This reminds me of "Downshifting, does anyone else use this technique?" or
"Who actually uses their front brake?"
Another member guessed you might not even own a bike...Good guess.
I'm too lazy to read 800 responses...I'm going with Troll.
This reminds me of "Downshifting, does anyone else use this technique?" or
"Who actually uses their front brake?"
#853
10-23-2016 | 07:27 AM
Thread Starter
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Banned
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 580
Likes: 14
From: Texas
I've not read through all of this and most of it is right on but,,, the perfect counter-steer is not counter. The front wheel has to be turned to the inside for the bike to turn and keep balance at the same time. (exception would be sliding the tires or "drifting") Also the turn has to be tightened in reference to the radius of the curve at the end of the curve to bring the wheels back under the center of gravity.. (accelerating out of the turn can do the same thing)
"The front wheel has to be turned to the inside for the bike to turn and keep balance at the same time."
Do you mean to the inside of the curve rather than the outside of the curve?
#854
10-23-2016 | 07:34 AM
Thread Starter
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Banned
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 580
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From: Texas
I do not just think so, I know so.
Just this one piece of information from that post is something that I bet you will not find in any other post in this forum. And that is the information about how the desired lean angle is obtained. I am going to post this again. If it is posted somewhere in this forum I am sure that someone will point it out to me.
Notice in the following quote that in order to maintain the lean after you counter-steer you have to turn into the lean. This makes perfect sense, because the purpose of the lean was to change your direction or tighten your turuning radius. If you did not turn into the lean the bike would fall over.
It is a subtle point, but in order to maintain the lean , after you counter-steer, you have to turn into the lean. In other words you have to turn the front wheel back.
The Look, Lean and Roll method should be called, the Look, Lean, Turn into the Lean and Roll method.
Having said all that something Bwoltz said in a prior thread has me intriqued. He said
"The front wheel has to be turned to the inside for the bike to turn and keep balance at the same time."
I think what he means is the front wheel has to be turned to the inside of the curve if you want to both turn and keep balance at the same time. He could be mistaken. I would like to hear more about this.
Just this one piece of information from that post is something that I bet you will not find in any other post in this forum. And that is the information about how the desired lean angle is obtained. I am going to post this again. If it is posted somewhere in this forum I am sure that someone will point it out to me.
Notice in the following quote that in order to maintain the lean after you counter-steer you have to turn into the lean. This makes perfect sense, because the purpose of the lean was to change your direction or tighten your turuning radius. If you did not turn into the lean the bike would fall over.
It is a subtle point, but in order to maintain the lean , after you counter-steer, you have to turn into the lean. In other words you have to turn the front wheel back.
The Look, Lean and Roll method should be called, the Look, Lean, Turn into the Lean and Roll method.
As the desired angle is approached, the front wheel must usually be steered into the turn to maintain that angle or the bike will continue to lean with gravity, increasing in rate, until the side contacts the ground. This process often requires little or no physical effort, because the geometry of the steering system of most bikes is designed in such a way that the front wheel has a strong tendency to steer in the direction of a lean. See Wheel flop at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycl...try#Wheel_flop
"The front wheel has to be turned to the inside for the bike to turn and keep balance at the same time."
I think what he means is the front wheel has to be turned to the inside of the curve if you want to both turn and keep balance at the same time. He could be mistaken. I would like to hear more about this.
Last edited by MikerR1; 10-23-2016 at 08:15 AM.
#855
10-23-2016 | 07:44 AM
Cruiser
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 194
Likes: 21
From: Vancouver,B.C.
Make sure you look way down the road where you are going to come out of the corner, my trainer told me that a few years ago and it helps to make the basics of cornering easier for me. Your periphial vision will watch for catastrophies that may upset you on the road.
#856
10-23-2016 | 07:47 AM
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,416
Likes: 87
From: San Quirino, Italy
You're an idiot...you asked a stupid question ( do I press down?) to start this thread and then debate like you are an expert on the subject? WTF??? By the way, if you don't maintain the pressure to the inside of the grip (counter steering...) while going through a turn at speed, the bike will stand up and you will run off the road or worse. PLEASE feel free to try it if you debate this point. Darwinism at its best...
Last edited by Northbound Southerner; 10-23-2016 at 08:20 AM.
The following users liked this post:
rdam (10-23-2016)
#857
10-23-2016 | 09:26 AM
Thread Starter
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Banned
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 580
Likes: 14
From: Texas
You're an idiot...you asked a stupid question ( do I press down?) to start this thread and then debate like you are an expert on the subject? WTF??? By the way, if you don't maintain the pressure to the inside of the grip (counter steering...) while going through a turn at speed, the bike will stand up and you will run off the road or worse. PLEASE feel free to try it if you debate this point. Darwinism at its best...
You are one of those people who are mistaking holding pressure on the bars to maintain the lean with counter-steering. It takes pressure on the bars to maintain the lean angle, otherwise, if you release the pressure the lean will reverse. You already know that. But that is not counter-steering. You counter-steer when you want to change the lean angle.
Actually, and I just realized this, when you take the pressure off the bars you are counter-steering because you are changing the lean angle. If you are in a stable lean and you take the pressure off the bars, that is counter-steering.
Ok. you are now back on ignore.
Last edited by MikerR1; 10-23-2016 at 09:31 AM.
#858
10-23-2016 | 09:33 AM
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,416
Likes: 87
From: San Quirino, Italy
I am only going to respond to this one post of yours because it is an excellent post to illustrate what I have been trying to say.
You are one of those people who are mistaking holding pressure on the bars to maintain the lean with counter-steering. It takes pressure on the bars to maintain the lean angle, otherwise, if you release the pressure the lean will reverse. You already know that. But that is not counter-steering. You counter-steer when you want to change the lean angle.
Actually, and I just realized this, when you take the pressure off the bars you are counter-steering because you are changing the lean angle. If you are in a stable lean and you take the pressure off the bars, that is counter-steering.
Ok. you are now back on ignore.
You are one of those people who are mistaking holding pressure on the bars to maintain the lean with counter-steering. It takes pressure on the bars to maintain the lean angle, otherwise, if you release the pressure the lean will reverse. You already know that. But that is not counter-steering. You counter-steer when you want to change the lean angle.
Actually, and I just realized this, when you take the pressure off the bars you are counter-steering because you are changing the lean angle. If you are in a stable lean and you take the pressure off the bars, that is counter-steering.
Ok. you are now back on ignore.
#859
10-23-2016 | 09:53 AM
Club Member
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 11,373
Likes: 17,485
From: Clearwater, Idaho
I am only going to respond to this one post of yours because it is an excellent post to illustrate what I have been trying to say.
You are one of those people who are mistaking holding pressure on the bars to maintain the lean with counter-steering. It takes pressure on the bars to maintain the lean angle, otherwise, if you release the pressure the lean will reverse. You already know that. But that is not counter-steering. You counter-steer when you want to change the lean angle.
Actually, and I just realized this, when you take the pressure off the bars you are counter-steering because you are changing the lean angle. If you are in a stable lean and you take the pressure off the bars, that is counter-steering.
Ok. you are now back on ignore.
You are one of those people who are mistaking holding pressure on the bars to maintain the lean with counter-steering. It takes pressure on the bars to maintain the lean angle, otherwise, if you release the pressure the lean will reverse. You already know that. But that is not counter-steering. You counter-steer when you want to change the lean angle.
Actually, and I just realized this, when you take the pressure off the bars you are counter-steering because you are changing the lean angle. If you are in a stable lean and you take the pressure off the bars, that is counter-steering.
Ok. you are now back on ignore.
"Your bike has a natural tendency to stay upright, which gets stronger the faster you go. So, the faster you go, the more you need to actively countersteer, even through the turn, to overcome the self righting tendency. At race speeds, racers are actually using a tremendous amount of countersteering force just tokeep their bikes leaned over".
Countersteering can be used two ways, apparently--at least according to this video (which, as you know, I and quite a few others agree with). One is to initiate a turn, the other is to stay in the turn. It says it right here, in the video you linked to, at 3:45:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C848R9xWrjc#t=2m0s
Again, I'd like to hear you comments...
Just realized... I'm probably on Mikey's ignore list. So much the better....
Last edited by martinj; 10-23-2016 at 10:32 AM.
#860
10-23-2016 | 09:57 AM
I going to leave with this thought.
Everyone has a given name - it's on your birth certificate;
Member of the forum choose user names;
In the MC world and even the RC world those that have been around give you a name, sometimes cool, sometimes funny, sometimes not what you think it means;
Yours is obvious;
Counter-steer
Which is what I will now do from this thread and any future threads you start. It's been fun but it definitely hasn't been real.
Everyone has a given name - it's on your birth certificate;
Member of the forum choose user names;
In the MC world and even the RC world those that have been around give you a name, sometimes cool, sometimes funny, sometimes not what you think it means;
Yours is obvious;
Counter-steer
Which is what I will now do from this thread and any future threads you start. It's been fun but it definitely hasn't been real.