That's fantastic for you to point out.?. Not sure why you did, but have an idea.
Still, opinions do not change the way nature works. If you roll/twist the throttle to increase the speed, don't change the pressure (more/less, forward or backward) on the handlebar, the lean angle will decrease.
What do you think will happen? Do you think there is a magical phenom that happens when you do this that is beyond anyone's grasp?
What is your point with this question? Asking it over and over, implies that you have a specific agenda that appears to be something like some kind of enlightenment you are going to bestow upon us. (I can't wait) Or could be an attempt at thinking none of us would be smart enough to answer it correctly, therefore an attempt at trying to debunk anything we say. That motive doesn't seem bright.
If you don't already know what happens and you don't want to take my word for it, go test it out yourself. Then come back and tell us.
If I seem to have an unwavering aire about my answer, I already know what happens, as I have a natural grasp on basic physics. :-)
I respond to a lot of posts in this thread. I do not read all of the posts completely. Some posts I do not read at all. Sometimes I make a mistake.
The question that was asked and answered was
If you roll on the throttle (accelerate) through the turn, what will happen to the lean angle.
The assumption was that you are steering (not counter-steering) in the direction you are looking, not that there is no pressure on the handlebars.
The point of the question was, if you accelerate through the turn do you have to counter-steer to achieve a stable lean angle?
The op is like a 6 year old saying why, why, why, why. He freely admits that he does not read the post made to answer his questions. He merely looks for an opening to to say "Why". At the beginning, when we thought he was serious, we answered his original question in ways that normal 5th grader would understand, but the OP does not seek answers, he seeks being the center of attention. Had he been serious, before responding he would have read the response and tried to understand what was being told him. It should be obvious to all, that he does not care about this topic. It could be oil, or loud pipes, or the Presidential debates, or how to correctly pick your nose. We keep coming back as we know that a solid intuitive understanding of how to ride a motorcycle is important, even for trolls. It is the classic, "we want to help" vs "It's my thread" and "I am not interested in learning anything." You all think he is "Going to get it!" He does not want to get it. We have all helped riders gain confidence in corners. This is not a case of helping somebody understand how to negotiate a corner or many different corners.
The reason I come back, and I stopped reading the OPs post days ago, is to read the serious responses that some of you have made in order to make me a better teacher. Thanks to those of you who took the OPs posts as a serious question. Now you know better, do with it what you may. I for one read all the serious posts and found that looking at counter steering through your eyes and experience was helpful, though I already walk the walk.
If what you post is truly how you believe, there are some misconceptions that you have. I'll try to explain in red below.
Originally Posted by MikerR1
I respond to a lot of posts in this thread. I do not read all of the posts completely. Some posts I do not read at all. Sometimes I make a mistake. Thanks for the honesty.
The question that was asked and answered was
If you roll on the throttle (accelerate) through the turn, what will happen to the lean angle. The question does not state anything about changing the handlebars, so the answer is that the lean angle will decrease (bike will tend to stand more upright), with an increase of throttle.
The assumption was that you are steering (not counter-steering) in the direction you are looking, These terms and how they are interpreted is where a lot of confusion comes. One could say that you "steer" your bike (making it go left or right), by performing a "counter-steer" (causing the wheel to point in the opposite direction of the curve/turn), maneuver.
What you seem to not be understanding is that you always counter-steer when in a curve, and almost always in a turn. I can't tell you exactly what speed it takes to go from turning the wheel left to go left (very slow), to when you're at a speed where you must turn the wheel right to go left.
not that there is no pressure on the handlebars.
Pressure on the handlebars (forward/backward, not upward/downward), is steering/counter-steering.
The point of the question was, if you accelerate through the turn do you have to counter-steer to achieve a stable lean angle? To initiate the curve/lean angle, you push the handle forward (counter-steer which starts the bikes lean) on the side of the bike that is in the direction of your turn/curve. You continue pressing that handle forward (usually with slight increase/decrease pressure movements) until you straighten the bike (release forward pressure on that handle) up for coming out of the curve. More specifically to your question as written immediately above, yes you must increase your counter-steer (forward pressure, that you are already doing), as you increase the throttle...to maintain a stable lean angle.
Last edited by gotnspikes; 10-20-2016 at 04:17 PM.
Please do not misinterpret my response to you. I really have no interest at all in talking with you.
Crap! How could I have been so stupid? All the signs were there! The inane baiting question. The subsequent refusal to accept a rational answer. The authoritative prose on a topic you clearly do not understand. And now this - asking me a question, but when I answer, you have no interest at all in talking to me.
Clearly - you are my ex wife!
So with that in mind, I'm just going to go ahead and say some things that have been on my mind-
No - I'm not interested in your vagina. I have moved on to a better vagina.
Stop trying to speak on matters of which you know little to nothing. It was cute when you were young and hot, but now it's annoying.
When you pour it from a jar, you didn't actually "make" dinner.
If what you post is truly how you believe, there are some misconceptions that you have. I'll try to explain in red below.
Well thank you for telling me about my misconceptions but I really do not think I have a misconception. I will tell you why.
Look at this diagram, and don't freak out because it is a diagram. Diagrams are helpful to people. This diagram is like a timing diagram. Turning a motorcycle is a complex event, meaning, many things happen simultaneously. The timing diagram is a way to visualize the complexity and helps us talk about. So, now you know why I like the diagram. And yes, the diagram is not perfect.
The Diagram below implies to me that the lean angle of the motorcycle can be controlled by the throttle, rather than just by counter-steering. If you want to increase the lean angle you would roll off the throttle, if you want to decrease the lean angle you would roll on the throttle. This is where I get my "misconception" as you call it.
Study the diagram and tell me what it means to you.
BTW, I will try this myself on the weekend. I only ride on the weekends because of the traffic in my home town.
Well thank you for telling me about my misconceptions but I really do not think I have a misconception. I will tell you why.
Look at this diagram, and don't freak out because it is a diagram. Diagrams are helpful to people. This diagram is like a timing diagram. Turning a motorcycle is a complex event, meaning, many things happen simultaneously. The timing diagram is a way to visualize the complexity and helps us talk about. So, now you know why I like the diagram. And yes, the diagram is not perfect.
The Diagram below implies to me that the lean angle of the motorcycle can be controlled by the throttle, rather than just by counter-steering. If you want to increase the lean angle you would roll off the throttle, if you want to decrease the lean angle you would roll on the throttle. This is where I get my "misconception" as you call it.
Study the diagram and tell me what it means to you.
BTW, I will try this myself on the weekend. I only ride on the weekends because of the traffic in my home town.
You have a misconception of what I was saying that your misconception is.
The misconception I was originally referring to is that it seems that you believe steering to be in opposition to counter-steering. It's ok, I understand that it can be confusing. You have to actually understand what steering is to understand my statement, that they are not opposite each other. 3., 2., 1., you steer your two wheeled vehicle by counter-steering. There...I've said it...secret is out!
I understand your diagram (apparently better than you do) and am not intimidated by it at all. Turning a motorcycle is actually not a complex event (multiple factors at work together, does not make something complex), but rather a very simple event that takes virtually no thought to it or you wouldn't have to ask questions about it. Once you realize (if you do) that you are doing everything we're telling you that you're doing, without even realizing it...you might just get it.
A lot of what you wrote about the throttle having the ability to control the lean angle is true. However, the amount of pressure applied to the forward motion of the hand grip (turning the wheel) (I'll call this counter-steer),also effects the lean angle. They (throttle and counter-steer) work together to give you lean angle.
If your bike is at a standstill (no throttle), you can turn your handlebars left and right freely without causing the bike to lean. In addition, you can be moving at any speed you allow the throttle to give, in any gear you're in...and without turning the handlebar in any direction(no counter-steer)...you won't lean. To get the bike to lean while in motion, you must have forward motion (we'll call it throttle even though it can be at different levels, you need it to give you forward motion) and turn the handlebars, together.
So, you can control different degrees of lean angle once you're in it, with throttle or counter-steer and even with a mixture of both. I've done and do it all the time. Actually, we all do.
You seem to know how to read a diagram, but you don't seem to fully understand it. Your interpretation of it is half right, and will get the job done. It doesn't mean it's the complete explanation of the forces that are at work.
The diagram can also be written differently. It's actually incorrect as "counter-steer right" when you exit the curve can get you killed. it should have been written "level out handlebars" as you exit because as you let off your forward pressure on the grip, your bike will straighten up. I never press on my left grip to curve left and then press on my right grip to straighten up. I press on my left grip to get the lean I need to navigate the curve and then as I am coming out of the curve, I lessen the forward pressure on that original grip. The bike stands up on its own when moving forward and not pressing a grip forward.
"counter-steer right" wouldn't be possible until the handlebars were straightened out and then past center from the "counter-steer left" in that example. In other words, "counter-steer left" is the wheel in any position left of center when maneuvering a right handed curve. To go out of the curve and "counter-steer right" would be going past center (bike straight up) and cause the bike to go to the left.
Last edited by gotnspikes; 10-20-2016 at 06:59 PM.
In the following clip, it looks like the parrot is counter weighting on his left bird foot, to turn right. But I always thought you needed to weight the right bird foot to turn right. I'm really getting confused. OP - can you help me?
10-20-2016 | 02:45 PM
