THere are so many things in this thread that are such absolute bullshit its pathetic....
Look Lean and Roll....ummm just so we are clear...the LEAN part involves counter-steering....You are looking through the turn, setting your lean angle, and rolling on the throttle to keep the front suspension as unloaded as possible....
You keep asking what happens to lean angle when you roll on the throttle....ummm NOTHING!!!! Rolling on the throttle unloads the front suspension, which then allows you to counter steer more/lean further over, hence tightening your turn....if you dont unload the front end you end up in a low side crash because your loading the front tire to the point that it will break traction. Rolling on the throttle without doing anything as far as the steering controls of the bike just makes you go faster in the direction you are already going....actually I take that back....accelerating without increasing pressure on your bars will slowly decrease the radius of your turn....as more pressure will be required to keep the same lean angle....
THere are MANY things being done in unison when operating a motorcycle, and just doing one wihtout the rest will have little effect. We do most of this without thinking about it or without realizing it. Turning a motorcycle is all about the amount of traction that the front tire can provide while the suspension is working....the faster we are going the more the suspension needs to work, and once you hit that limit it becomes a lowside crash or we run off the road....its really that simple. Everything else we are doing is being done to allow that front suspension to be as light as possible and to allow the most traction to the front tire...
And I will now bow out again until tomorrow, after MikerR1 will now refute all of this and will say I am wrong....until he finds some youtube video or wiki page that says the same thing and will then claim it as his own knowledge and gospel....
Last edited by RedRider0151; 10-20-2016 at 08:37 AM.
THere are so many things in this thread that are such absolute bullshit its pathetic....
Look Lean and Roll....ummm just so we are clear...the LEAN part involves counter-steering....You are looking through the turn, setting your lean angle, and rolling on the throttle to keep the front suspension as unloaded as possible....
You keep asking what happens to lean angle when you roll on the throttle....ummm NOTHING!!!! Rolling on the throttle unloads the front suspension, which then allows you to counter steer more/lean further over, hence tightening your turn....if you dont unload the front end you end up in a low side crash because your loading the front tire to the point that it will break traction. Rolling on the throttle without doing anything as far as the steering controls of the bike just makes you go faster in the direction you are already going....actually I take that back....accelerating without increasing pressure on your bars will slowly decrease the radius of your turn....as more pressure will be required to keep the same lean angle....
THere are MANY things being done in unison when operating a motorcycle, and just doing one wihtout the rest will have little effect. We do most of this without thinking about it or without realizing it. Turning a motorcycle is all about the amount of traction that the front tire can provide while the suspension is working....the faster we are going the more the suspension needs to work, and once you hit that limit it becomes a lowside crash or we run off the road....its really that simple. Everything else we are doing is being done to allow that front suspension to be as light as possible and to allow the most traction to the front tire...
And I will now bow out again until tomorrow, after MikerR1 will now refute all of this and will say I am wrong....until he finds some youtube video or wiki page that says the same thing and will then claim it as his own knowledge and gospel....
There is a lot of information in that post. Some of it, at first glance, appears to be contradictory, some of it, I have no doubt, is correct and some of it I think is wrong.
Sometimes you just gotta know what questions to ask.
I've actually been watching the Cubs-Dodgers NLCS game tonight, and I didn't see these:
The lean angle decreases.
Originally Posted by RedRider0151
You keep asking what happens to lean angle when you roll on the throttle....ummm NOTHING!!!! Rolling on the throttle unloads the front suspension, which then allows you to counter steer more/lean further over, hence tightening your turn........
THere are so many things in this thread that are such absolute bullshit its pathetic....
Look Lean and Roll....ummm just so we are clear...the LEAN part involves counter-steering....You are looking through the turn, setting your lean angle, and rolling on the throttle to keep the front suspension as unloaded as possible....
You keep asking what happens to lean angle when you roll on the throttle....ummm NOTHING!!!! Rolling on the throttle unloads the front suspension, which then allows you to counter steer more/lean further over, hence tightening your turn....if you dont unload the front end you end up in a low side crash because your loading the front tire to the point that it will break traction. Rolling on the throttle without doing anything as far as the steering controls of the bike just makes you go faster in the direction you are already going....actually I take that back....accelerating without increasing pressure on your bars will slowly decrease the radius of your turn....as more pressure will be required to keep the same lean angle....
THere are MANY things being done in unison when operating a motorcycle, and just doing one wihtout the rest will have little effect. We do most of this without thinking about it or without realizing it. Turning a motorcycle is all about the amount of traction that the front tire can provide while the suspension is working....the faster we are going the more the suspension needs to work, and once you hit that limit it becomes a lowside crash or we run off the road....its really that simple. Everything else we are doing is being done to allow that front suspension to be as light as possible and to allow the most traction to the front tire...
And I will now bow out again until tomorrow, after MikerR1 will now refute all of this and will say I am wrong....until he finds some youtube video or wiki page that says the same thing and will then claim it as his own knowledge and gospel....
Your statements are implying that the more front suspension a bike has the more it can lean and I quess, the natural deduction would be the faster it could go in a turn.
You are also implying that the reason the bike is hard to counter-steer is because the front suspension is loaded. Why is the front suspension loaded? Are you applying the front brake at the same time you are counter-steering? Is that the "trail brake" method that Keith was talking about? It would not make sense to apply the front brake and accelerate at the same time. Please explain that better.
According to this diagram, you do counter-steer and use the front brake at the same time. But the counter steer and braking end when the acceleration begins. You steer in the direction that you are looking.
You are right, turning is a complex operation. Many things are going on simultaneously and instinctively. That is why having the Diagram is helpful. The Diagram is a sort of timing diagram that shows us what things are happening simultaneously.
That diagram tells me that increasing the throttle is what contributes to obtaining a stable lean, without counter-steering.
You could make your own diagram. I wish you would.
I am posting this again because obviously, some of you guys just don't get it.
BTW, this is a really fun way to take a curve.
Notice the increasing throttle.
Surprisingly, wikipedia has a good explanation and a picture. The picture shows the "perfect corner".
As others have mentioned (including myself) counter-steering is a momentary steering of the motorcycle counter to the desired direction. During the turn itself, there is no counter-steering.
The momentary counter-steer to the left initiates the "stable lean". You stay in the "stable lean" until you decide to exit the curve. You do not counter-steer during the "stable lean".
The Perfect Corner
If you are racing on a track, you may not enter into a "stable lean". Rather, you might counter-steer in the turn, to increase your lean angle, in order to decrease the radius of the turn. By decreasing the radius of the turn you negotiate the turn faster because you travel a shorter distance at a higher speed.
Are you dense?
THE ONLY WAY TO STAY IN THAT LEAN IS TO MAINTAIN PRESSURE IN THE DIRECTION OF THE TURN. The "stability" of the lean is from the stability of the counter steering pressure.
The bike will go upright as soon as you remove that pressure. How the hell else do you think you end your turn?
I'm with others, this is the stupidest thread I have seen in years, and you're obviously a troll.
THE ONLY WAY TO STAY IN THAT LEAN IS TO MAINTAIN PRESSURE IN THE DIRECTION OF THE TURN. The "stability" of the lean is from the stability of the counter steering pressure.
The bike will go upright as soon as you remove that pressure. How the hell else do you think you end your turn?
I'm with others, this is the stupidest thread I have seen in years, and you're obviously a troll.
Do you accelerate while you are counter-steering? Probably not.
I'm with others, this is the stupidest thread I have seen in years, and you're obviously a troll.
Yet people won't stop feeeding it.
This is much like a fire at one of those huge tire dumps- the fire keeps burning as long as there are tires. (despite the efforts of some to extinguish it)
People have not stopped throwing tires on the pile.
It's was apparent about 500 posts ago that this was coming..............
Lest we forget, this whole mess started with this question:
10-20-2016 | 08:21 AM
