I've come to the conclusion long ago that you just don't get it. Trying to explain it any further is pissing in the wind.
It is ludicrous for anyone to challenge the unanimous explanations by numerous people when you are wrong and still think you are right. Failing to understand this simple concept just magnifies your ignorance on how bicycles and motorcycles turn.
I took an MSF class back in 06, I had about 25 years of experience on Motorcycles at the time and had never heard the term counterster. My dad thought me how to ride on a Honda XR 80. He never talked about countersteering he just got me use to taking off without doing wheelies every time or stalling it. When I learned the friction zone with a little practice I was good to go from there. If there was a corner I didn't think about anything I just went around it just like on a bike. This was the same for every MC I owned big, small, dirt, street, whatever. So fast forward to MSF years later and the instructor starts talking about countersteering?? I was looking at him like what the hell are you talking about. I got home from the class around 11:PM opened the garage pulled out my Fatboy and began to countersteer it all over the neighborhood I was actually laughing the whole time. I couldn't believe I had been turning my bars the opposite direction without even knowing it. I hind sight I think when I became conscious of it my cornering skills became a lot better.
Yes, Countersteering is real and if you have ever successfully hit a corner above 15-20 MPH you countersteered your bike. If you think you didn't then your a special kind of dumb.
Basically, it appears that one counter-steers to increase the angle of lean. Period.
The point I am trying to make, using your example, is that when the driver is pushing on the inside bar he is counter-steering, when he is pushing on the outside bar he is not counter-steering.
I've read this book that says both of those motions you mentioned above amount to countersteering. I'm not saying this book is the bible, but they do make a convincing argument.
Here are quotes from the book "Proficient Motorcycling" by David L. Hough:
"Countersteering is a momentary, dynamic input, not the direction the front wheel happens to be pointed toward at the moment... You can't determine countersteering from a still photograph because it's a dynamic motion."
As a small hijack, everyone who rides on public roads should read "Proficient Motorcycling" by David L. Hough
Surprisingly, wikipedia has a good explanation and a picture. The picture shows the "perfect corner".
As others have mentioned (including myself) counter-steering is a momentary steering of the motorcycle counter to the desired direction. During the turn itself, there is no counter-steering.
The Perfect Corner. The momentary counter-steer to the left initiates the "stable lean". You stay in the "stable lean" until you decide to exit the curve. You do not counter-steer during the "stable lean". You exit the turn with a second, momentary counter-steer to the right ( as pointed out by martinj and edders)
If you are racing on a track, you may not enter into a "stable lean". Rather, you might counter-steer in the turn, to increase your lean angle, in order to decrease the radius of the turn. By decreasing the radius of the turn you negotiate the turn faster because you travel a shorter distance at a higher speed.
I did get out and try it. I found that counter steering was a momentary event. Use it to change direction, but once you create the lean you do not continue to countersteer. You turn into the lean and shift your weight.
True, "counter-steering" initiates lean only. It isn't needed to maintain lean. In fact you'll counter-steer again (the opposite way) when you want the bike to stand back up, or lessen the angle of lean. Or continue to change lean angle to the point of leaning to the other side for a turn the other way. Like an "S" turn combination. Once a lean is finished changing angles, the tires are almost exactly inline, regardless if the rider is "pushing up/down on the pegs, or standing on their head." Or both feet are on one side of the bike ("side saddle.") or the rider is "hanging off" or the rider is "counter-weighting." Doesn't matter what the rider is doing, to initiate lean, they counter-steered!
Surprisingly, wikipedia has a good explanation and a picture. The picture shows the "perfect corner".
As others have mentioned (including myself) counter-steering is a momentary steering of the motorcycle counter to the desired direction. During the turn itself, there is no counter-steering.
The Perfect Corner. The momentary counter-steer to the left initiates the "stable lean". You stay in the "stable lean" until you decide to exit the curve. You do not counter-steer during the "stable lean". You exit the turn with a second, momentary counter-steer to the right ( as pointed out by martinj and edders)
If you are racing on a track, you may not enter into a "stable lean". Rather, you might counter-steer in the turn, to increase your lean angle, in order to decrease the radius of the turn. By decreasing the radius of the turn you negotiate the turn faster because you travel a shorter distance at a higher speed.
Surprisingly, wikipedia has a good explanation and a picture. The picture shows the "perfect corner".
As others have mentioned (including myself) counter-steering is a momentary steering of the motorcycle counter to the desired direction. During the turn itself, there is no counter-steering.
True. There are only minute front tire oscillations to maintain balance.
The Perfect Corner. The momentary counter-steer to the left initiates the "stable lean". You stay in the "stable lean" until you decide to exit the curve. You do not counter-steer during the "stable lean".
TRUE.
If you are racing on a track, you may not enter into a "stable lean". Rather, you might counter-steer in the turn, to increase your lean angle, in order to decrease the radius of the turn. By decreasing the radius of the turn you negotiate the turn faster because you travel a shorter distance at a higher speed.
In the MSF course I took years ago I was told to "press right go right; press left go left".
Here is my question. What do they mean by press? Do they mean press the left bar DOWN or press the left bar FORWARD?
The word "press" is ambiguous in the context of counter-steering.
If you are a MSF instructor I think you need to make sure your students understand what you mean by the word "press", when you say "press left go left, press right go right". You must clearly define what you mean by the word "press".
I have a heavier bike now with a lower center of gravity and the way I have been doing countersteering (pushing DOWN on the handlebar) is not working as good for me.
How do you interpret "press right" to "Press down on the right"?
I'll bet you need to have the definition of the word "is" explained to you.
Can't wait for the thread on braking and acceleration.
Reminds me of anther time, when;
Obie looked at the seein' eye dog . . . then at the twenty-seven 8 x 10
Colored glossy pictures with the circles and arrows and a paragraph on the
Back of each one . . . and looked at the seein' eye dog . . . and then at
The twenty-seven 8 x 10 colored glossy pictures with the circles and arrows
And a paragraph on the back of each on and began to cry.
Can't wait for the thread on braking and acceleration.
Reminds me of anther time, when;
Obie looked at the seein' eye dog . . . then at the twenty-seven 8 x 10
Colored glossy pictures with the circles and arrows and a paragraph on the
Back of each one . . . and looked at the seein' eye dog . . . and then at
The twenty-seven 8 x 10 colored glossy pictures with the circles and arrows
And a paragraph on the back of each on and began to cry.
I hope you paid attention because you (and bone doc and a few others) followed the herd on this and the herd was wrong.
10-17-2016 | 11:53 PM
I've come to the conclusion long ago that you just don't get it. Trying to explain it any further is pissing in the wind. 
