Originally Posted by guitarfish

I didn't post the video to say that's how we learn to ride a bike.


Motorcycles are maneuvered using countersteering. Not body weight, not footpegs, not mental telepathy. Countersteering. The example of a bicycle was given because you can also countersteer a bicycle.


Some people like to argue. So I'll add one more controversial statement before I leave this thread: The sky is blue.

Originally Posted by guitarfish

Mike, this is getting silly.

False. I posted the video of the countersteering bicycle because it was asserted that a bicycle cannot be maneuvered with countersteering. Clearly, it can.


What are we talking about here? RIDING a motorcycle, or putting around at 5-10mph? With both a bicycle and a motorcycle, you can turn them left to go left, turn right to go right, when going slow. Once you get up to speed and you are riding, you countersteer to turn them. It is very subtle, many people may not even realize they are doing it. The bicycle video exaggerated the countersteering to illustrate it. In reality, very little press on the bar is needed, as someone said, you can do it with a finger.

If you think you are steering your motorcycle at speed (I'll just throw out a number, 25mph and up) without countersteering, then there's a disconnect here which I will no longer try and explain.

Is it possible to alter the direction of a bike at speed without countersteering? As the Keith Code video shows, you can flop and bounce around violently and it will marginally affect where the bike is going. It's not fast, efficient, and that's just not how bikes are steered. I suppose you could also put your foot down on the ground and push off to change direction too.

I just went back and re-read your first post in this thread. It's a head scratcher. Countersteering a bike is so natural and intuitive, most people don't even realize they are doing it.

When you apply forward pressure to the right handgrip, the front wheel starts to turn to the left. Because moto tires are round, unlike car tires that are flat, the weight on the front wheel is shifted to the outside edge of the tire, and the wheel immediately "falls" or leans in the direction opposite of where it just started to turn. Hence the name countersteering. In this example, the wheel falls to the right and the bike now leans to the right, and that's where it goes.

In simple terms, push right, go right.

/end

Originally Posted by nevada72

It's harder to counter steer a Sportster than it is a Street Glide.

There.

I said it.

Originally Posted by MikerR1

No one in this thread (that I know of) has asserted that a bicycle cannot be maneuvered by counter-steering. So I do not know where you got that from.

And yes, you can negotiate a curve at speeds of 25 mph without counter-steering and by just shifting your body weight to lean the motorcycle. The speed at which you can do this depends on the curvature of the curve.

I have personally negotiated curves at 45 mph by shifting body weight and pressing DOWN on the handlebar with both my foot and hand.

You are not going to win this argument because you are arguing with someone who regularly slows down in curves to lean the motorcycle without using counter-steering. In fact, that is one of the reasons I started this thread, because I realize that I cannot continue to do that on the busy highway in my home town. I have to be able to take the curves at highway speed. Before I use to stay off the highway, but the bike I have now is much more fun on the highway. (And I have a feeling its going to be a hell of a lot more fun to counter-steer my way through the curves at highway speed)

Originally Posted by nevada72

It's harder to counter steer a Sportster than it is a Street Glide.

There.

I said it.

Originally Posted by MikerR1

I have personally negotiated curves at 45 mph by shifting body weight and pressing DOWN on the handlebar with both my foot and hand.

Originally Posted by MikerR1

You are not going to win this argument because...

Originally Posted by guitarfish

First, shame on me...I said I was leaving...


Um...your foot on the handlebars? That aside, congratulations, you just countersteered.

"A little bar pressure gets the job done."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PbmXxwKbmA
"This is countersteering. It's the ONLY WAY to accurately steer a motorcycle."


I am quite certain I will not win an argument with you. I'm also quite sure you won't win one with Keith Code.
'Keith Code is a former motorcycle racer, writer, and founder of the California Superbike School. He has been called "arguably the best known and most successful on-track motorcycle instructor in the world." '

Originally Posted by MikerR1

I don't put my foot on the handlebars! LOL. That was a typo.

I push down on the handlebars with my hand and down on the foot pegs with my foot. DOWN. And the bike leans but it does not lean much that is why I have to slow down. For really tight curves I have to slow down a lot. Bikes with higher center of gravity will lean more. My current bike has a lower center of gravity compared to my previous bike.

Well if Keith is as good as you say he is then he will agree with me because I am proof that it can be done if you go slow enough relative to the curvature of curve.

I am not arguing that it should be done my way. I am actually arguing that I should be countersteering in those curves and I fully intend to do it. Looking forward to it actually.

Originally Posted by MikerR1

I push down on the handlebars with my hand and down on the foot pegs with my foot. DOWN. And the bike leans but it does not lean much that is why I have to slow down.