Counter-steering
#111
10-12-2016 | 06:13 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 11,398
Likes: 8,132
From: Georgia
I did not read all the posts, so I suspect I am late to the show. But here is my advice for what it is worth.
I am happy you are taking countersteering seriously. Your life will depend on it.
My recommendation is to find a stretch of two lane road with no traffic. On the straight away, move towards the center and then just gently push forward on one grip, then the other until you start to feel the change. Now, as you ride down the road, use only this gentle push to gracefully start playing in the corners. Keep your speed constant or start to lightly accelerate through the corners. This is a technique that will enhance your rider skills.
I posted this for a friend years ago, maybe some of the advise will help you build confidence and skill as a rider.
Just remember that even if you can, you do not have to take the corners as aggressively as others. It comes down to making counter steering natural and trusting your own capabilites as well as those of the bike. You will learn to slow down enough to slowly accelerate through the curve and leave yourself enough leeway in both directions to dodge a rock on the inside of miss a cage over the line on the outside. Typically when a corner sign (for trucks) gives a speed, it is safe on a motorcycle at 15-20 over that speed. So a 40 mph curve is safe on two wheels at 55. A 25 mph curve at 40. I use the 15 mph rule but I have friends that use a 20 mph above the truck sign rule. I draw the line below 20 and 15 mph are 15 mph.
If you are still feeling unconfident in the corners it is probably related trying to steer instead of counter steering. There are many factors in good cornering skills, but the base line is an adjusted speed into the corner so that no slowing or braking will be required, a delayed apex so you can see around the curve as far as possible, and a steady or gentle acceleration through the corner using counter steering to keep the bike in an optimal position. You have done this but it has not become instinctive yet. It will. This class may be the tool that lets you retain what you have already learned when you do it right.
Don't worry about it. The more you have to think about it the more it slows your mind from doing it instinctively. Ride your own pace and there is no such thing as being too slow. But when you get it, you will naturally speed up a little bit and feel just as safe.
If you are still turning your bars, try pushing the inside of the corner grip forward instead. The bike leans more naturally and feels steadier. The best thing is you have the desire. A healthy fear will become a healthy respect for corners.
I am happy you are taking countersteering seriously. Your life will depend on it.
My recommendation is to find a stretch of two lane road with no traffic. On the straight away, move towards the center and then just gently push forward on one grip, then the other until you start to feel the change. Now, as you ride down the road, use only this gentle push to gracefully start playing in the corners. Keep your speed constant or start to lightly accelerate through the corners. This is a technique that will enhance your rider skills.
I posted this for a friend years ago, maybe some of the advise will help you build confidence and skill as a rider.
Just remember that even if you can, you do not have to take the corners as aggressively as others. It comes down to making counter steering natural and trusting your own capabilites as well as those of the bike. You will learn to slow down enough to slowly accelerate through the curve and leave yourself enough leeway in both directions to dodge a rock on the inside of miss a cage over the line on the outside. Typically when a corner sign (for trucks) gives a speed, it is safe on a motorcycle at 15-20 over that speed. So a 40 mph curve is safe on two wheels at 55. A 25 mph curve at 40. I use the 15 mph rule but I have friends that use a 20 mph above the truck sign rule. I draw the line below 20 and 15 mph are 15 mph.
If you are still feeling unconfident in the corners it is probably related trying to steer instead of counter steering. There are many factors in good cornering skills, but the base line is an adjusted speed into the corner so that no slowing or braking will be required, a delayed apex so you can see around the curve as far as possible, and a steady or gentle acceleration through the corner using counter steering to keep the bike in an optimal position. You have done this but it has not become instinctive yet. It will. This class may be the tool that lets you retain what you have already learned when you do it right.
Don't worry about it. The more you have to think about it the more it slows your mind from doing it instinctively. Ride your own pace and there is no such thing as being too slow. But when you get it, you will naturally speed up a little bit and feel just as safe.
If you are still turning your bars, try pushing the inside of the corner grip forward instead. The bike leans more naturally and feels steadier. The best thing is you have the desire. A healthy fear will become a healthy respect for corners.
The following users liked this post:
nevada72 (10-12-2016)
#112
10-12-2016 | 06:54 PM
Thread Starter
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Banned
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 580
Likes: 14
From: Texas
If you are still feeling unconfident in the corners it is probably related trying to steer instead of counter steering.
#113
10-12-2016 | 08:10 PM
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,044
Likes: 333
From: Twisty Mtn roads of Colorado
I watched a NASCAR race one day, they didn't say anything about counter steering but rather talked about under steering, over steering, drafting and that rubbing was racing - I didn't get that either...lol
#114
10-12-2016 | 08:44 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,569
Likes: 4,381
From: anacoco, la
Make sure when you teach in your classes that your students understand what you mean when you say "push left go left, push right go right". Make sure they understand that you mean push forward, not push down. You cannot just say "push left go left push right go right" and leave it to the students to figure out what direction in which to "push" the handlebar. I am positive that some of your students will think you mean to push DOWN, when, in fact, you mean to push FORWARD!
#115
10-12-2016 | 08:59 PM
Road Warrior
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,432
Likes: 441
From: USA
I may catch flack due to safe control but the method I use to describe it is this... When conditions permit, use an open hand palm against the end of the handle bar with light pressure. Combine this with some body english and there you go.
#117
10-12-2016 | 09:20 PM
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,251
Likes: 1,784
From: PA
When I first learned about counter steering (reading online) I also had a "Whaaat?" response. My MSF class was still a couple weeks away, so I got out my mountain bike. And then I realized, it's nothing I hadn't been doing all these years. At about 10-15 mph, just a slight push on the handle bar in the direction I wanted to go, and voila. If you're riding, you're doing it. Unless you only ride in straight lines.
#119
10-13-2016 | 12:08 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 11,398
Likes: 8,132
From: Georgia
When I first learned about counter steering (reading online) I also had a "Whaaat?" response. My MSF class was still a couple weeks away, so I got out my mountain bike. And then I realized, it's nothing I hadn't been doing all these years. At about 10-15 mph, just a slight push on the handle bar in the direction I wanted to go, and voila. If you're riding, you're doing it. Unless you only ride in straight lines.
#120
10-13-2016 | 02:02 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,242
Likes: 570
From: Vegas, baby!
When I first learned about counter steering (reading online) I also had a "Whaaat?" response. My MSF class was still a couple weeks away, so I got out my mountain bike. And then I realized, it's nothing I hadn't been doing all these years. At about 10-15 mph, just a slight push on the handle bar in the direction I wanted to go, and voila. If you're riding, you're doing it. Unless you only ride in straight lines.
Of course if the speed of the scooter is high enough, such as in a fast sweeping left turn, the handlebars are 'steered' slightly to the right all the way through the turn. Until the turn straightens out. The opposite is true for right turns. This is because centrifugal force causes the scooter to want to move outward from the direction of the turn and a constant 'steer' in the opposite direction of a turn makes the scooter attempt to fall in the direction of the turn. So in a smoothly performed turn, the actions balance out.
It is lucky for me that this is such a simple, natural, process. In 1972 I entered an uphill wide left sweeping curve too fast. As my speed carried me over to the guardrail on the right meant to prevent vehicles from going over the edge of about a 10 foot drop, instead of turning left to avoid the guardrail which would have caused my scooter to move towards the guardrail, I instinctively turned right, counter steered, and my scooter turned left and didn't hit the guardrail. And this was done without ever hearing the term 'counter steer'. Perhaps it came natural to me because I was young enough to almost still be riding a bicycle as my primary mode of transportation?
Last edited by rjg883c; 10-14-2016 at 02:21 PM.