I've read (and practiced) that book. It is very good and breaks things down nicely, but some of the people here are not gonna be happy when they read it.

 

Hmm, I use it at parking lot speeds, even when I'm doing footpeg dragging angles. In fact, while the turn of the handlebars is certainly more pronounced, I am actually pushing on the inner bar to the point that it is supporting some of my weight.

 

As long as you continue to "press" the bike will continue to follow that track. The more you press the tighter the track. If the track happens to be in a turn your bike will continue on that turn. If you press even harder in the turn the turn will get tighter. As soon as you easy up the pressure on the "press" the bike will want to stand up.

You also get the same effect on a section of road with strong wind from one side or the other. You will need to "press" on the side the wind is hitting you. That will cause the bike to lean into the wind but on a straight track not actually create a turn unless you continue to press even more.

You most likely did all this as a kid on your bike heading down a hill, but you weren't thinking about pressing on the handle bar to make a turn you just instinctively did it. It's all physics; don't over think it because it will just make your head hurt.

 

Yes. Not so much in slow speed turns though.

Like someone said earlier... it is much easier to understand how it works by simply practicing. Find yourself a nice quiet stretch of straight road and practice by gently weaving back and forth at about 45 MPH. Experiment with shifting your weight, and pushing/ pulling your handlebars. You will notice immediately how your bike responds.

The absolute worst place to learn about counter steering is on a twisty mountain road at 65 MPH: that's a good way to have a really bad day. There will be a time when you will need to use all three to stay out of the ditch (shift weight, pull, and push). Better to learn how to do these things ahead of time.

 

Ultimately, this is the crux of the discussion - that counter steering works at ALL speeds. The differences lie in the amount/degree of "pushing" relative to speeds/gyroscope/lean angles/etc. For slower speeds - parking lots, etc. - the counter steering still works, it only may be slightly decreased or exaggerated in speed, movement, or amount. It all depends upon conditions of the bike/rider/turn/lean/gravity/etc.


What I haven't read yet in this discussion is that leaning the bike over just allows the contact patch to migrate to the SIDE of the tire. It's the decreasing wheel radius on the SIDE of the tire that actually TURNS the bike. (IN-SIDE side; of BOTH tires; get it?)


Balance of bike and rider before, during, and after the turn, is all about interaction and interplay between centripetal/centrifugal forces, center of gravity, and amount of lean angle. They all affect each other, and pushing on the bar (one side or the other) determines whether you go deeper into the turn, or pop upright and straighten out of it.


Hope this helps,
John

 

Hopefully someone will show up soon and explain how counter steering works. Preferably something about "just try it" or maybe something using a bicycle as an example.

 

You are that person

 

This video explains why we are taught to look in the direction we want to go. He says we are taught that because our hands will naturally follow our eyes, so therefore, the bike will go in the direction we are looking. I am not so sure this is true, (that our hands will naturally follow our eyes)


Uh oh, if you are a foot dragger you better watch this!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIM1ZJJajHs#t=5m0s


"A bike is much more fun to ride when you ride it the way it was designed to be ridden".

 

Part I don't get is how loping affects countersteering....or does it?

 

I did not read all the posts, so I suspect I am late to the show. But here is my advice for what it is worth.
I am happy you are taking countersteering seriously. Your life will depend on it.
My recommendation is to find a stretch of two lane road with no traffic. On the straight away, move towards the center and then just gently push forward on one grip, then the other until you start to feel the change. Now, as you ride down the road, use only this gentle push to gracefully start playing in the corners. Keep your speed constant or start to lightly accelerate through the corners. This is a technique that will enhance your rider skills.

I posted this for a friend years ago, maybe some of the advise will help you build confidence and skill as a rider.

Just remember that even if you can, you do not have to take the corners as aggressively as others. It comes down to making counter steering natural and trusting your own capabilites as well as those of the bike. You will learn to slow down enough to slowly accelerate through the curve and leave yourself enough leeway in both directions to dodge a rock on the inside of miss a cage over the line on the outside. Typically when a corner sign (for trucks) gives a speed, it is safe on a motorcycle at 15-20 over that speed. So a 40 mph curve is safe on two wheels at 55. A 25 mph curve at 40. I use the 15 mph rule but I have friends that use a 20 mph above the truck sign rule. I draw the line below 20 and 15 mph are 15 mph.

If you are still feeling unconfident in the corners it is probably related trying to steer instead of counter steering. There are many factors in good cornering skills, but the base line is an adjusted speed into the corner so that no slowing or braking will be required, a delayed apex so you can see around the curve as far as possible, and a steady or gentle acceleration through the corner using counter steering to keep the bike in an optimal position. You have done this but it has not become instinctive yet. It will. This class may be the tool that lets you retain what you have already learned when you do it right.

Don't worry about it. The more you have to think about it the more it slows your mind from doing it instinctively. Ride your own pace and there is no such thing as being too slow. But when you get it, you will naturally speed up a little bit and feel just as safe.

If you are still turning your bars, try pushing the inside of the corner grip forward instead. The bike leans more naturally and feels steadier. The best thing is you have the desire. A healthy fear will become a healthy respect for corners.