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  #41  
Old 03-13-2016, 11:31 PM
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Next time your riding in a straight line, gently push forward on the left handlebar; you will start to turn to the left. That's the effect of countersteering.

Next time you have the bike in a left hand corner (doing say at least 30mph), push on the left handlebar a little; but beware you will turn further to the left. If you're in a corner a little too hot and not making the line, countersteer. Be aware you will lean over more, so watch ground clearance.

You would be surprised to know how much countersteer force racers apply to the bars in high speed turns.

Gir has a nice illustration of inside knee dragging. The bike has to lean in a corner to counteract centrifical force; knee dragging provides the counter to centrifical force while allowing the bike to remain more upright, avoiding grounding out the low side.

Counter leaning used be called "English". Definitely a low speed trick.
 
  #42  
Old 03-13-2016, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by bad tappets
...You would be surprised to know how much countersteer force racers apply to the bars in high speed turns...
Absolutely! In fact, most average riders would be surprised to find out how much countersteering force we use every day! I just took an ARC for a spring refresher, and the instructor had us going through a cone weave one-handed!

For anyone reading this who's interested in giving this a try, go find your local favorite twisty road that you know well, and do it one handed. If you don't already believe in countersteering, you will be a believer after that drill. If you have cruise control, set that and try steering one handed with your left hand. It's a real eye opener.
 
  #43  
Old 03-13-2016, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by chamokie
Dont want to start a long boring thread or get into a pissing contest.
Been reading up on leaning, one author suggest's lean in turn, other author suggest counter leaning as in counter steering.

Just out of curiosity, what do you folks do and what does your passenger do?
Note: been on two wheels 50+ yrs, just wonder what my fellow riders do.
Thanks
Staying upright (vs the ground) helps with perspective and most have an easier time controlling their bike because it's what they're used to (similar to driving a car, the view doesn't change) and you can see through turns better.

Most riders, at least on cruisers, just keep their body straight with the bike. It feels comfortable, feels cooler, feels like you're riding a motorcycle.

Leaning into turns isn't just a thing people do to look cool. It's done for a reason. As you move your body farther over into the turn, the bike must re-adjust it's center of gravity. Since some of your body weight is leaned over, it means the bike doesn't have to lean over as far with its own weight. This allows the bike to stay more upright than the other ways of turning. This means that with this method, you can take corners faster. Obviously, if you lean the opposite direction, you effectively reduce your cornering abilities because the bike has to compensate for your body weight being on the wrong side. Motorcycle racers don't do it for fun. But if you're not used to doing this, the perspective can be really strange and your perception can be thrown off, it takes a bit of practice. I imagine on bikes that weigh less, it's more pronounced. I weigh 185lbs. So my weight shifting around on a 600lb bike isn't going to be as significant of a change as it would be on a 250lb bike.

EDIT: Also you don't want to lean in on low speed maneuvers, low speed is a whole different thing. The bike isn't balancing itself at low speeds, you are balancing it, so you actually shift your body the opposite direction to help keep CG in check.
 

Last edited by Dane M; 03-14-2016 at 12:36 AM.
  #44  
Old 03-14-2016, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Dane M
Staying upright (vs the ground) helps with perspective and most have an easier time controlling their bike because it's what they're used to (similar to driving a car, the view doesn't change) and you can see through turns better...But if you're not used to doing this, the perspective can be really strange and your perception can be thrown off, it takes a bit of practice...
This is very true!

If while you're leaning you're also leaning your head, then the horizon is no longer level in your field of view. It's at an angle. Believe it, when the horizon is not level your brain is NOT happy.

You always need to keep your head level in a turn, no matter how much you're leaning. Think "keep your chin level". Take a look at the green line in the last pic in my post. That's how you should be holding your head.
 

Last edited by IdahoHacker; 03-14-2016 at 12:28 AM.
  #45  
Old 03-14-2016, 12:24 AM
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Lots of misinformation here.
 
  #46  
Old 03-14-2016, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by IdahoHacker
This is very true!

If while you're leaning you're also leaning your head, then the horizon is no longer level in your field of view. It's at an angle. Believe it, when the horizon is not level your brain is NOT happy.

You always need to keep your head level in a turn, no matter how much your leaning. Think "keep your chin level". Take a look at the green line in the last pic in my post. That's how you should be holding your head.
^ all that stuff.

Here's a picture of some moto GP guys, see how they're trying to keep their heads as level as they can. But the trick is you still have to look through your turns, the most common good advise I've heard is point your chin to your mirror. Just do that normally when riding and it helps with CG a lot because you naturally shift your weight. Just like when you learned to ride a bicycle and everyone told you to "look where you want to turn"

 
  #47  
Old 03-14-2016, 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted by NORTY FLATZ
Lots of misinformation here.
Well, help us out. Where?
 
  #48  
Old 03-14-2016, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by IdahoHacker
Well, help us out. Where?
Hope it's not me. I like to think I'm quite studious.
 
  #49  
Old 03-14-2016, 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Dane M
Hope it's not me. I like to think I'm quite studious.
Well, that's two of us...
 
  #50  
Old 03-14-2016, 12:49 AM
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I don't get why people are still debating counter steering. It's a proven thing. You can try it yourself and see, there is no question. It's been studied to death. You can find tests on video of guys leaning around on their light sport bikes without touching the handlebars and the bike DOES NOT TURN.

Then again, some people still think the earth is flat. (And that's not a joke by the way)

I've been riding bicycles and mountain bikes my whole life. But when I learned to ride a motorcycle and people told me about counter-steering, I thought about it too much and confused myself, it felt weird. But then I hopped back on a bicycle and realized I was doing the same thing at speeds, just on a bicycle you're often going at what would be considered a low speed on a motorcycle. And the bicycle weighs so little that when you lean into turns it makes a big difference.

By the way though..... you can turn your bike another way.... by using your body as a drag force. When the freeway opens up, sometimes I put on my throttle lock, take my hands off the bars, and just move my body around to the side I want to turn. My body acts like a parachute catching wind and manipulates the motorcycle just a little bit, enough for a long sweeping turn at 70mph. Pretty cool. I like to look at drivers as I pass by them. Lots of confused looks, it's good fun. If I lean to the side and hunker down (no parachute affect, less wind resistance) it doesn't work.
 

Last edited by Dane M; 03-14-2016 at 12:55 AM.


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