First off, I'm a relatively small guy. 140lbs and stand about 5'8". A mid sized bike like a dyna suits me well, I've owned and ridden softails, dynas, and sportys but after buying my first touring bike (2010 street glide) a couple years ago I really found what I was looking for. I ride 5-7 days a week at least 70 miles a day, pretty aggressive and higher than average speeds. I also take a lot of long trips which means high speed interstate riding for long hours.

The problem is me outriding the bike. By that I mean the bike in stock form is inadequate for how I want to ride it, the suspension is extremely unstable at the speeds I prefer to ride. Growing up on sport bikes (last one was an rc51) leaves a lot to be desired as far as handling. It's time to start addressing some issues. First and foremost, the front end.

Options are:
1 - motorcycle metal's 49mm trees with harley forks re-valved and sprung. Although Howard makes an excellent product and it's a tremendous improvement for pre 2014 bikes I don't think this will be enough. I've pushed a stock 2015 to the point where it became unstable in a corner and it wasn't fun.

2- quality inverted forks. There are 3 companies I am aware of that manufactures trees to fit inverted forks on a touring bike. Motorcycle metal, big bear choppers, and Kraus. All 3 take a different approach to the steering geometry.

Motorcycle metal - retains factory rake and offset.

Kraus - the answer I received from them was "Our SP Trees are stock as of rake. The Geometry is refined for handling and performance."

BBC - according to a YouTube video Kevin explains they change the rake of the trees to reduce the trail down to that of a dyna.

What I want from my bike is being able to corner at higher speeds without going into a wobble, but not at the cost of losing straight line stability, the type of stability that comes from the excessive trail where you can let go of the bars with the cruise set at 90. I don't care that my bike feels "heavy" at walking speeds, I'm not trying to build a parking lot racer, but better steering response is always a plus.

Now I know most will say I'm riding the wrong bike for what I want but I truly believe the FL frame is a great foundation that can accomplish what I want with the right suspension.

I know Howard's trees will not lose any stability due to the fact there is no change in steering geometry. I'm not an expert by any means and I don't know anyone running Kraus or BBC trees to give any feedback on how they handle during different types of riding, do they offer better steering response due to the change of geometry without sacrificing stability?

Anyone with any experience in this? I'm looking forward to building one bad *** touring bike this year that is still a functioning and capable "touring" bike.

 

It's funny that many seem to think the 09 up frames are superior to the the older bikes.. While there is a bit more trail and better tire profile, not much has changed. The forks might be part of the problem but I suspect that they are not all of the problem..

Not to insult (RC51 is a cool bike) but just to verify that you made the basic checks..

How many miles on the bike?

When were the forks last serviced?

Have you checked steering bearing preload?

Swing arm bearings? Rubber isolator condition?

Tire condition and inflation?

I would add drivetrain stabilizers and improve front / rear suspension damping first before changing the forks.

If you added pull back bars and a seat that sets you further back, the changes can be part of your problem.

 

i have 40k miles on the bike but every bearing/bushing/motor mount on the frame has been changed, the fall away on the neck bearings is set correctly and the forks have been serviced regularly, wheels are balanced with a static balancer.

I recently rode a 2013 SG with only 1500 miles and I had the same issues at the same speeds. It isn't worn parts or incorrect settings, my bike handles as it did when it was new. I had a friends 2015 SG for 3 weeks, put about 3k miles on it and while the 49mm forks were a huge improvement i still had to hold back in some corners. On a perfect road it was nice and stable, if I had it near full lean hauling *** and there was any upset in the suspension due to a slight bump or dip it would look like a snake coming out of the corner.

An engine stabilizer would definitely help these issues but only to an extent. IMO the forks are the weakest link and cause the most problems with the handling, that's why I'm attacking this problem first. Secondly will be rear shocks and stabilizers.

 

Sounds like you have a handle on the issue.. I would lean towards the stabilizers first as they are cheaper but there is nothing wrong with your plan.. One thing that I'm sure contributes to the instability is the fork mounted fairing.. Try a road king or even a Roadglide some time..

If you push any bagger hard enough it will get squirly..

 

I put 30mm cartridges inside of the 49mm forks and clamp the top fork (unlike a 1986~2013) there are members who have that set up and they do not seam to have that problem, just ask them. The newest Ohlins inverted forks have the exact same 30mm cartridges as what I have been doing since 2009 in Dynas and starting designing my trees for the Baggers. There were no 2014's when I started. I have posted a U-Tube Video on the bagger triple tree problem with 41mm forks (while riding w/LED's as an indicator to show the flexing of unacceptable 41 mm fork tubes) and provided explanation(s) of why this happens. There are several posts on this back in the 2008~2009(?) time frame.

You can read many companies trying to sell you many wiz-bang gadgets, some work, some do not. One thing is for sure: There is no free lunch. It comes down to what do you want your bike to do?

Reducing your trail will make the bike turn in better at a cost of increased attention to steering input. No getting out of that one. More miles = more work and attention (with reduced trail) to your bike you have to do. Of course if logic and physics get in your way, you may believe in Santa Claus and get an anomaly in your stocking along with paper LSD.

If you wanted a more responsive bike than pick a triple tree that has the steering stem behind the forks. I have been doing that since 2008. The steering is much more responsive but not as relaxed as a stock steering stem in front of the forks. All race/track bikes have this design and for a good reason. None of those bikes are used for touring. I would not wish to use a Hayabusa for touring either even though they come stock with a much needed steering damper.

Since I make all of my trees myself, I can change the trail through both steering stem offset and triple tree rake angle right in the program as I designed it that way. When making a production run at the end I just insert the new program for both top and bottom trees. Want a much improved handling bagger, than put the steering stem behind the forks with 4 degrees of trail. Want a relaxed touring bike put the forks behind the steering stem so the friction of the front tire pushes the forks (Self Centering) with 6.7" (2017) of trail for long rides. More trail = less input (remember the old choppers) V/S shorter trail = more input. I believe all of the stock baggers (1986~current) have no problems negotiating corners but more steering input is needed during turning. Just test ride a Dyna as they already have this. Want to tour on a Dyna or Sportster? Yes it can be done of course but how comfortable do you want to be?

If any person claims that they can out engineer Harley Davidson as far as steering geometry goes, double check reality. Harley employs rows of College educated engineers & metallurgists unlike some aftermarket hucksters trying to part with you & your money. Do you really believe Harley does not know what weight oil to use in your forks and shocks or how to design a bike for touring? Do you really believe some shyster who is known for producing motorcycles that the neck falls off or targeted armed service men & women an duty overseas and knowingly ripped them off to the tune of over six (six) million dollars? The internet is a source of research to get to the truth.

Again: Reducing your trail will make the bike turn in better at a cost of increased steering input. If you want your bike to be responsive, reduce your wheel base, loose 450# or more, and than reduce your trail and put the steering stem behind the forks with 4 degrees (corrected to inches) of trail. The flip side is you no longer have a touring bike.

 

Don't you mean 4 inches of trail? Always thought trail was in inches.

 

It's always in mm on Jap bikes.....

 

100% correct, I meant inches. I found that my inverted fork triple trees work well at 4" (Dyna) where a steering stabilizer is not necessary unlike when I go into the 3" range. Unfortunately I type slower than my thoughts and sometimes I am thinking past the subject at hand.