Touring at 100 kph in 6th - Can it destroy your engine?
#21
06-24-2012, 03:16 AM
But basically at 2000rpm your engine's ignition is at or near full advance so spark occurs at say 35 to 40 degrees before the piston reaches the top of its stroke, depending on model.
This is done on the assumption that the rapidly moving piston will have moved that last half inch or less to the top of the stroke before most of the fuel in the combustion chamber has burned and increased pressure in the cylinder way to hell and yon. Fuel in a cylinder burns in 'slow' burn, not an instantaneous explosion (although 'slow' means fractions of a second)
But at 2,000rpm the piston is not moving quite fast enough, so extreme high pressure from burning fuel is exerted on the piston while it is still moving upwards. Piston is being driven by momentum of the crank and the other piston/rod, a considerable force. This puts extreme strain on the aluminum piston, which can eventually develop stress cracks and come apart. It also hammers the hell out of the crankpin bearing with similar results.
Added to this, with low-test gas, the slow moving piston allows time for the flame front on the burning fuel/air mix in the combustion chamber to send a pressure wave ahead of itself, which in turn ignites unburnt mixture in the combustion chamber, turning what should be a controlled slow burn into more of an instant explosion. This is what causes (sometimes) the distinctive "marble in a coke can" sound of detonation aka pinging.
This uncontrolled explosion adds to stress on the piston and crank pin bearing.
Add to this, oil flow at 2,000rpm is not as much as it could be, so the overstressed engine components are operating in a sub-optimal lubrication and cooling environment.
By upping the revs to 2600-3000rpm the piston moves that 25-30 per cent quicker so it has gone up and over top dead center and is on its downward stroke before most of the fuel is ignited and cylinder pressure goes ballistic. Cylinder pressure is now working WITH the piston and crank, pushing the piston down the bore, following existing momentum of the crank, instead of hammering against it.
As far as damage to primary case area and bearing - not enough info given to tell what happened there but it may have resulted from crank being hammered out of alignment when the piston blew, or it may have resulted from the mechanic not doing what he should have done in the first place and stripping the bottom end to make SURE all piston debris was cleaned out.
Rebuilding the top end, then starting the engine to listen for the sound of undiscovered debris bouncing around in the bottom end is not the usual way to deal with a scattered piston that has sent debris to god only knows where in your engine. Maybe that is the modern way of doing it, but I have never heard of it being done before. Traditionally, if you had a piston blow bad enough do deform you barrel the way you describe, it means a full, complete engine strip, clean out and rebuild.
And yes, easiest way to lower your overall gearing would be a bigger rear belt sprocket.
Last edited by Hopper; 06-24-2012 at 03:18 AM.
#22
06-24-2012, 03:50 AM
Outstanding HDF Member
Well, it is complex and without seeing pics of the damage, more so.
But basically at 2000rpm your engine's ignition is at or near full advance so spark occurs at say 35 to 40 degrees before the piston reaches the top of its stroke, depending on model.
This is done on the assumption that the rapidly moving piston will have moved that last half inch or less to the top of the stroke before most of the fuel in the combustion chamber has burned and increased pressure in the cylinder way to hell and yon. Fuel in a cylinder burns in 'slow' burn, not an instantaneous explosion (although 'slow' means fractions of a second)
But at 2,000rpm the piston is not moving quite fast enough, so extreme high pressure from burning fuel is exerted on the piston while it is still moving upwards. Piston is being driven by momentum of the crank and the other piston/rod, a considerable force. This puts extreme strain on the aluminum piston, which can eventually develop stress cracks and come apart. It also hammers the hell out of the crankpin bearing with similar results.
Added to this, with low-test gas, the slow moving piston allows time for the flame front on the burning fuel/air mix in the combustion chamber to send a pressure wave ahead of itself, which in turn ignites unburnt mixture in the combustion chamber, turning what should be a controlled slow burn into more of an instant explosion. This is what causes (sometimes) the distinctive "marble in a coke can" sound of detonation aka pinging.
This uncontrolled explosion adds to stress on the piston and crank pin bearing.
Add to this, oil flow at 2,000rpm is not as much as it could be, so the overstressed engine components are operating in a sub-optimal lubrication and cooling environment.
By upping the revs to 2600-3000rpm the piston moves that 25-30 per cent quicker so it has gone up and over top dead center and is on its downward stroke before most of the fuel is ignited and cylinder pressure goes ballistic. Cylinder pressure is now working WITH the piston and crank, pushing the piston down the bore, following existing momentum of the crank, instead of hammering against it.
As far as damage to primary case area and bearing - not enough info given to tell what happened there but it may have resulted from crank being hammered out of alignment when the piston blew, or it may have resulted from the mechanic not doing what he should have done in the first place and stripping the bottom end to make SURE all piston debris was cleaned out.
Rebuilding the top end, then starting the engine to listen for the sound of undiscovered debris bouncing around in the bottom end is not the usual way to deal with a scattered piston that has sent debris to god only knows where in your engine. Maybe that is the modern way of doing it, but I have never heard of it being done before. Traditionally, if you had a piston blow bad enough do deform you barrel the way you describe, it means a full, complete engine strip, clean out and rebuild.
And yes, easiest way to lower your overall gearing would be a bigger rear belt sprocket.
But basically at 2000rpm your engine's ignition is at or near full advance so spark occurs at say 35 to 40 degrees before the piston reaches the top of its stroke, depending on model.
This is done on the assumption that the rapidly moving piston will have moved that last half inch or less to the top of the stroke before most of the fuel in the combustion chamber has burned and increased pressure in the cylinder way to hell and yon. Fuel in a cylinder burns in 'slow' burn, not an instantaneous explosion (although 'slow' means fractions of a second)
But at 2,000rpm the piston is not moving quite fast enough, so extreme high pressure from burning fuel is exerted on the piston while it is still moving upwards. Piston is being driven by momentum of the crank and the other piston/rod, a considerable force. This puts extreme strain on the aluminum piston, which can eventually develop stress cracks and come apart. It also hammers the hell out of the crankpin bearing with similar results.
Added to this, with low-test gas, the slow moving piston allows time for the flame front on the burning fuel/air mix in the combustion chamber to send a pressure wave ahead of itself, which in turn ignites unburnt mixture in the combustion chamber, turning what should be a controlled slow burn into more of an instant explosion. This is what causes (sometimes) the distinctive "marble in a coke can" sound of detonation aka pinging.
This uncontrolled explosion adds to stress on the piston and crank pin bearing.
Add to this, oil flow at 2,000rpm is not as much as it could be, so the overstressed engine components are operating in a sub-optimal lubrication and cooling environment.
By upping the revs to 2600-3000rpm the piston moves that 25-30 per cent quicker so it has gone up and over top dead center and is on its downward stroke before most of the fuel is ignited and cylinder pressure goes ballistic. Cylinder pressure is now working WITH the piston and crank, pushing the piston down the bore, following existing momentum of the crank, instead of hammering against it.
As far as damage to primary case area and bearing - not enough info given to tell what happened there but it may have resulted from crank being hammered out of alignment when the piston blew, or it may have resulted from the mechanic not doing what he should have done in the first place and stripping the bottom end to make SURE all piston debris was cleaned out.
Rebuilding the top end, then starting the engine to listen for the sound of undiscovered debris bouncing around in the bottom end is not the usual way to deal with a scattered piston that has sent debris to god only knows where in your engine. Maybe that is the modern way of doing it, but I have never heard of it being done before. Traditionally, if you had a piston blow bad enough do deform you barrel the way you describe, it means a full, complete engine strip, clean out and rebuild.
And yes, easiest way to lower your overall gearing would be a bigger rear belt sprocket.
The ignition is set wrong because it is a full advance when it shouldn't be?
The lubrication is inadequate?
Engine components are overstressed?
Cooling is not good enough?
And to top it all the 6th gear can only be used when riding well above the legal speed limit?
Jeez, I wish you had told me this sooner so I could have bought a JamaKawuzuki.
#23
06-24-2012, 03:58 AM
So what you are telling me is that I bought a crap bike?
The ignition is set wrong because it is a full advance when it shouldn't be?
The lubrication is inadequate?
Engine components are overstressed?
Cooling is not good enough?
And to top it all the 6th gear can only be used when riding well above the legal speed limit?
Jeez, I wish you had told me this sooner so I could have bought a JamaKawuzuki.
The ignition is set wrong because it is a full advance when it shouldn't be?
The lubrication is inadequate?
Engine components are overstressed?
Cooling is not good enough?
And to top it all the 6th gear can only be used when riding well above the legal speed limit?
Jeez, I wish you had told me this sooner so I could have bought a JamaKawuzuki.
Six million tattoos can't be wrong.
#24
06-24-2012, 06:09 AM
They are going to tell you that you can not run 2100 RMPs in 6th .
I say BS I run my on flat roads at 2100 all day long never have one issue.
Amazes me how many think the HD are metrics and you have to run at high rpms with them..
I bet my Touring bike spends most of it's life between 2100 and 3000 rpmrs. And I do ride mine not just to the bar.
Now if your riding in high wind or up grades you may need to drop a gear or roll on a bit.
I say BS I run my on flat roads at 2100 all day long never have one issue.
Amazes me how many think the HD are metrics and you have to run at high rpms with them..
I bet my Touring bike spends most of it's life between 2100 and 3000 rpmrs. And I do ride mine not just to the bar.
Now if your riding in high wind or up grades you may need to drop a gear or roll on a bit.
Last edited by smitty901; 06-24-2012 at 06:11 AM.
#25
06-24-2012, 06:35 AM
Outstanding HDF Member
#26
06-24-2012, 07:59 AM
Club Member
Well, it is complex and without seeing pics of the damage, more so.
But basically at 2000rpm your engine's ignition is at or near full advance so spark occurs at say 35 to 40 degrees before the piston reaches the top of its stroke, depending on model.
This is done on the assumption that the rapidly moving piston will have moved that last half inch or less to the top of the stroke before most of the fuel in the combustion chamber has burned and increased pressure in the cylinder way to hell and yon. Fuel in a cylinder burns in 'slow' burn, not an instantaneous explosion (although 'slow' means fractions of a second)
But at 2,000rpm the piston is not moving quite fast enough, so extreme high pressure from burning fuel is exerted on the piston while it is still moving upwards. Piston is being driven by momentum of the crank and the other piston/rod, a considerable force. This puts extreme strain on the aluminum piston, which can eventually develop stress cracks and come apart. It also hammers the hell out of the crankpin bearing with similar results.
Added to this, with low-test gas, the slow moving piston allows time for the flame front on the burning fuel/air mix in the combustion chamber to send a pressure wave ahead of itself, which in turn ignites unburnt mixture in the combustion chamber, turning what should be a controlled slow burn into more of an instant explosion. This is what causes (sometimes) the distinctive "marble in a coke can" sound of detonation aka pinging.
This uncontrolled explosion adds to stress on the piston and crank pin bearing.
Add to this, oil flow at 2,000rpm is not as much as it could be, so the overstressed engine components are operating in a sub-optimal lubrication and cooling environment.
By upping the revs to 2600-3000rpm the piston moves that 25-30 per cent quicker so it has gone up and over top dead center and is on its downward stroke before most of the fuel is ignited and cylinder pressure goes ballistic. Cylinder pressure is now working WITH the piston and crank, pushing the piston down the bore, following existing momentum of the crank, instead of hammering against it.
As far as damage to primary case area and bearing - not enough info given to tell what happened there but it may have resulted from crank being hammered out of alignment when the piston blew, or it may have resulted from the mechanic not doing what he should have done in the first place and stripping the bottom end to make SURE all piston debris was cleaned out.
Rebuilding the top end, then starting the engine to listen for the sound of undiscovered debris bouncing around in the bottom end is not the usual way to deal with a scattered piston that has sent debris to god only knows where in your engine. Maybe that is the modern way of doing it, but I have never heard of it being done before. Traditionally, if you had a piston blow bad enough do deform you barrel the way you describe, it means a full, complete engine strip, clean out and rebuild.
And yes, easiest way to lower your overall gearing would be a bigger rear belt sprocket.
But basically at 2000rpm your engine's ignition is at or near full advance so spark occurs at say 35 to 40 degrees before the piston reaches the top of its stroke, depending on model.
This is done on the assumption that the rapidly moving piston will have moved that last half inch or less to the top of the stroke before most of the fuel in the combustion chamber has burned and increased pressure in the cylinder way to hell and yon. Fuel in a cylinder burns in 'slow' burn, not an instantaneous explosion (although 'slow' means fractions of a second)
But at 2,000rpm the piston is not moving quite fast enough, so extreme high pressure from burning fuel is exerted on the piston while it is still moving upwards. Piston is being driven by momentum of the crank and the other piston/rod, a considerable force. This puts extreme strain on the aluminum piston, which can eventually develop stress cracks and come apart. It also hammers the hell out of the crankpin bearing with similar results.
Added to this, with low-test gas, the slow moving piston allows time for the flame front on the burning fuel/air mix in the combustion chamber to send a pressure wave ahead of itself, which in turn ignites unburnt mixture in the combustion chamber, turning what should be a controlled slow burn into more of an instant explosion. This is what causes (sometimes) the distinctive "marble in a coke can" sound of detonation aka pinging.
This uncontrolled explosion adds to stress on the piston and crank pin bearing.
Add to this, oil flow at 2,000rpm is not as much as it could be, so the overstressed engine components are operating in a sub-optimal lubrication and cooling environment.
By upping the revs to 2600-3000rpm the piston moves that 25-30 per cent quicker so it has gone up and over top dead center and is on its downward stroke before most of the fuel is ignited and cylinder pressure goes ballistic. Cylinder pressure is now working WITH the piston and crank, pushing the piston down the bore, following existing momentum of the crank, instead of hammering against it.
As far as damage to primary case area and bearing - not enough info given to tell what happened there but it may have resulted from crank being hammered out of alignment when the piston blew, or it may have resulted from the mechanic not doing what he should have done in the first place and stripping the bottom end to make SURE all piston debris was cleaned out.
Rebuilding the top end, then starting the engine to listen for the sound of undiscovered debris bouncing around in the bottom end is not the usual way to deal with a scattered piston that has sent debris to god only knows where in your engine. Maybe that is the modern way of doing it, but I have never heard of it being done before. Traditionally, if you had a piston blow bad enough do deform you barrel the way you describe, it means a full, complete engine strip, clean out and rebuild.
And yes, easiest way to lower your overall gearing would be a bigger rear belt sprocket.
Awesome... my thoughts exactly, so summary in IMHO
2000 rpm lugging of engine over a long period of time [19k road trip] + poor fuel [15% + ethanol] = Detonation = Piston chipping or fracturing, cylinder wall scoring and possible crank truing damage. And then Add the severe stress and missfire in the Spring [?] cold start up -finished the Piston off and cracked the case.
So from now on 2400-3000 cruising RPM unless your going down hill, with a tail wind, no passenger load, a full tank of gas [10% or less ethanol] and NO cold starts in February in the Maritimes got it?
#27
06-24-2012, 09:07 AM
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Hopper i think you are on the money here
Awesome... my thoughts exactly, so summary in IMHO
2000 rpm lugging of engine over a long period of time [19k road trip] + poor fuel [15% + ethanol] = Detonation = Piston chipping or fracturing, cylinder wall scoring and possible crank truing damage. And then Add the severe stress and missfire in the Spring [?] cold start up -finished the Piston off and cracked the case.
So from now on 2400-3000 cruising RPM unless your going down hill, with a tail wind, no passenger load, a full tank of gas [10% or less ethanol] and NO cold starts in February in the Maritimes got it?
Awesome... my thoughts exactly, so summary in IMHO
2000 rpm lugging of engine over a long period of time [19k road trip] + poor fuel [15% + ethanol] = Detonation = Piston chipping or fracturing, cylinder wall scoring and possible crank truing damage. And then Add the severe stress and missfire in the Spring [?] cold start up -finished the Piston off and cracked the case.
So from now on 2400-3000 cruising RPM unless your going down hill, with a tail wind, no passenger load, a full tank of gas [10% or less ethanol] and NO cold starts in February in the Maritimes got it?
I should clarify that I never did start it cold in February (I only mentioned that I wasn`t able to to lubricate everything as I do with snowmobiles in the off-season). In fact I didn`t even try, knowing it would be either impossible or hard on everything, so just let it sit. That is about 7 months here btw but gas should be fine if a full tank for that long, and rust shouldn`t form inside the engine since you`d think oil film would remain on parts for 7 months. I should also clarify that I never ran it at 2000 rpm......100 kph in 6th is 2150-2200 rpm. Just wanted to point that out - the 2000 rpm was mentioned by one dealer who said I`m okay as long as I keep it above 2000 rpm. I didn`t actually ride it there. One more clarification is that one dealer did suggest running in 5th to stop the detonation, but when I tried that for some time, it detonated anyway so I went back to 6th. That was someplace just east of Yellowstone I think, when my concerns about that experience was still bugging me. And finally, I`m not sure what case you mean but it was the primary drive case (in case you thought it was the crank case). But yes maybe the stress due to crank being out of true, damaged piston/cylinder and misfire cracked the primary drive case. Though I`d have thought the CRANKcase would have cracked from that than the primary drive case.
It was mid-June or so when I fired it up at WOT given it would only crank with no signs of life otherwise, and it made that horrible sound and started running on one cylinder but would stall if I let of the throttle completely. It seemed to run flawlessly other than excessive oil usage and occasional detonation that entire first 20,000 km or so season. I didn`t start to notice the oil usage until later in the trip.
P.S.
BTW, you have 120,000 km on your 2005 and it`s never been apart (other than for a top end displacement increase at _____ km)? I keep reading about this or that design flaws with Harley, one link in particular that has me concerned and I`ll post, specifically about cam chain followers (leading to grenading motors), stators, running hot/lean, and many other things. It`s encouraging that I can maybe expect relatively trouble free high mileage riding afterall. That`s why I bought a Harley touring bike in the first place......I thought they`re SO popular, and have been making them SO long, that modern Harley`s must have all the bugs worked out or people wouldn`t still be riding them so enthusiastically. My wife loves Harley you see and said she wouldn`t ride with me on anything else, and yes I`m ashamed to say I suggested BMW or Japanese tourers too. If I wanted to spend my vacation time with my wife, I had to get a Harley so didn`t even do any online research. After my complete and very expensive engine failure after a mere 1 year or riding, my first big tour, it was like a nightmare when I started reading these things, as once you put a lot of money into a bike ($18,500 to buy, $6000 to repair/upgrade, and $2500 in taxes), you don`t want to sell it at such a loss. That`s why I`m trying in this thread to get to the root cause of this problem, vs just listening to what the mechanic said because he`s human and can be wrong. Especially given what Harley and some of their dealers have said. Then if I know what not to do I can just ride on into the sunset on what is otherwise a beatiful, comfortable, smooth and good handling bike. It`s perfect really other than the exploding motor hopefully cured by running in 5th at 100 kph, detonation that`s hopefully cured by the oil cooler and V&H fuelpack, and oil usage hopefully cured by my new top end and lack of detonation which may have caused the oil usage (?) due to top end damage during the ride.
Last edited by LastHalf; 06-24-2012 at 09:57 AM.
#28
06-24-2012, 10:09 AM
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They are going to tell you that you can not run 2100 RMPs in 6th .
I say BS I run my on flat roads at 2100 all day long never have one issue.
Amazes me how many think the HD are metrics and you have to run at high rpms with them..
I bet my Touring bike spends most of it's life between 2100 and 3000 rpmrs. And I do ride mine not just to the bar.
Now if your riding in high wind or up grades you may need to drop a gear or roll on a bit.
I say BS I run my on flat roads at 2100 all day long never have one issue.
Amazes me how many think the HD are metrics and you have to run at high rpms with them..
I bet my Touring bike spends most of it's life between 2100 and 3000 rpmrs. And I do ride mine not just to the bar.
Now if your riding in high wind or up grades you may need to drop a gear or roll on a bit.
Last edited by LastHalf; 06-24-2012 at 10:21 AM.
#29
06-24-2012, 10:35 AM
Join Date: Jul 2011
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Well, it is complex and without seeing pics of the damage, more so.
But basically at 2000rpm your engine's ignition is at or near full advance so spark occurs at say 35 to 40 degrees before the piston reaches the top of its stroke, depending on model.
This is done on the assumption that the rapidly moving piston will have moved that last half inch or less to the top of the stroke before most of the fuel in the combustion chamber has burned and increased pressure in the cylinder way to hell and yon. Fuel in a cylinder burns in 'slow' burn, not an instantaneous explosion (although 'slow' means fractions of a second)
But at 2,000rpm the piston is not moving quite fast enough, so extreme high pressure from burning fuel is exerted on the piston while it is still moving upwards. Piston is being driven by momentum of the crank and the other piston/rod, a considerable force. This puts extreme strain on the aluminum piston, which can eventually develop stress cracks and come apart. It also hammers the hell out of the crankpin bearing with similar results.
Added to this, with low-test gas, the slow moving piston allows time for the flame front on the burning fuel/air mix in the combustion chamber to send a pressure wave ahead of itself, which in turn ignites unburnt mixture in the combustion chamber, turning what should be a controlled slow burn into more of an instant explosion. This is what causes (sometimes) the distinctive "marble in a coke can" sound of detonation aka pinging.
This uncontrolled explosion adds to stress on the piston and crank pin bearing.
Add to this, oil flow at 2,000rpm is not as much as it could be, so the overstressed engine components are operating in a sub-optimal lubrication and cooling environment.
By upping the revs to 2600-3000rpm the piston moves that 25-30 per cent quicker so it has gone up and over top dead center and is on its downward stroke before most of the fuel is ignited and cylinder pressure goes ballistic. Cylinder pressure is now working WITH the piston and crank, pushing the piston down the bore, following existing momentum of the crank, instead of hammering against it.
As far as damage to primary case area and bearing - not enough info given to tell what happened there but it may have resulted from crank being hammered out of alignment when the piston blew, or it may have resulted from the mechanic not doing what he should have done in the first place and stripping the bottom end to make SURE all piston debris was cleaned out.
Rebuilding the top end, then starting the engine to listen for the sound of undiscovered debris bouncing around in the bottom end is not the usual way to deal with a scattered piston that has sent debris to god only knows where in your engine. Maybe that is the modern way of doing it, but I have never heard of it being done before. Traditionally, if you had a piston blow bad enough do deform you barrel the way you describe, it means a full, complete engine strip, clean out and rebuild.
And yes, easiest way to lower your overall gearing would be a bigger rear belt sprocket.
But basically at 2000rpm your engine's ignition is at or near full advance so spark occurs at say 35 to 40 degrees before the piston reaches the top of its stroke, depending on model.
This is done on the assumption that the rapidly moving piston will have moved that last half inch or less to the top of the stroke before most of the fuel in the combustion chamber has burned and increased pressure in the cylinder way to hell and yon. Fuel in a cylinder burns in 'slow' burn, not an instantaneous explosion (although 'slow' means fractions of a second)
But at 2,000rpm the piston is not moving quite fast enough, so extreme high pressure from burning fuel is exerted on the piston while it is still moving upwards. Piston is being driven by momentum of the crank and the other piston/rod, a considerable force. This puts extreme strain on the aluminum piston, which can eventually develop stress cracks and come apart. It also hammers the hell out of the crankpin bearing with similar results.
Added to this, with low-test gas, the slow moving piston allows time for the flame front on the burning fuel/air mix in the combustion chamber to send a pressure wave ahead of itself, which in turn ignites unburnt mixture in the combustion chamber, turning what should be a controlled slow burn into more of an instant explosion. This is what causes (sometimes) the distinctive "marble in a coke can" sound of detonation aka pinging.
This uncontrolled explosion adds to stress on the piston and crank pin bearing.
Add to this, oil flow at 2,000rpm is not as much as it could be, so the overstressed engine components are operating in a sub-optimal lubrication and cooling environment.
By upping the revs to 2600-3000rpm the piston moves that 25-30 per cent quicker so it has gone up and over top dead center and is on its downward stroke before most of the fuel is ignited and cylinder pressure goes ballistic. Cylinder pressure is now working WITH the piston and crank, pushing the piston down the bore, following existing momentum of the crank, instead of hammering against it.
As far as damage to primary case area and bearing - not enough info given to tell what happened there but it may have resulted from crank being hammered out of alignment when the piston blew, or it may have resulted from the mechanic not doing what he should have done in the first place and stripping the bottom end to make SURE all piston debris was cleaned out.
Rebuilding the top end, then starting the engine to listen for the sound of undiscovered debris bouncing around in the bottom end is not the usual way to deal with a scattered piston that has sent debris to god only knows where in your engine. Maybe that is the modern way of doing it, but I have never heard of it being done before. Traditionally, if you had a piston blow bad enough do deform you barrel the way you describe, it means a full, complete engine strip, clean out and rebuild.
And yes, easiest way to lower your overall gearing would be a bigger rear belt sprocket.
As for his technique of rebuilding and then starting to hear for debris wasn`t his plan....it just happened that way. He tore it down to find the bad piston/cylinder, and seeing the fracture of the piston, flushed oil through the cases several times and thought he got it all. He did this to save me money, since as he said, going into the bottom end is a big job. When re-assembled he heard a tiny metallic `ting` sound once in awhile so he said NOW he has to go down into the bottom end.
As for the primary case damage possibly being from his not stripping down to the cases to clean, how could a bit of metal crack the primary case? I just can`t envision it. After all the flushing they did, and the tiny metallic sound he described that was barely audible, I didn`t think that could crack a case and wreck that bearing when that`s a separately sealed unit from where the metal-containing-oil was circulating.
My gas while in Canada may have been `low test` without the Octane booster the one dealer recommended vs using just premium (due to ethanol content in the latter), but wasn`t really `low test` once the octane was boosted right? Perhaps poor quality fuel with 15% ethanol, but not low test. Plus most of my detonation occurred in the US where I was using premium.
All that said - then why in the world would Harley themselves say in their manual and in denials to any problem, that we should run 6th gear at 100 or even 90 kph even on a flat stretch? Their top technicians and engineers should know this, if they`re designing the things in the first place, in particular if they have to pay for damage done by running the bikes according to said manual during the warranty period. If anyone should be an expert at engine operation it should be `The Harley Davidson Motor Company`. It`s not like this is a new engine/transmission.....didn`t the 6 speed come out in 2007? The fact they lowered the ratios in 09 and newer to speed up the engine at legal speeds should attest to the fact they`re aware of a problem, unless it was just a ridability and not reliability/durability reason behind it.
Last edited by LastHalf; 06-24-2012 at 11:12 AM.