My Christmas may have turned to crap
#1
My Christmas may have turned to crap
Well, Santa bought me a sweet Joker Machine air cleaner assembly and I put it on this morning.
As I was installing the breather bolts I noticed they seemed to go in sorta "rough" so I pulled it apart and recleaned the breather holes on the heads and tried again. Same thing. Shined a flashlight in the holes and the threads seemed fine so went for the install again. Same thing. Finally, I cleaned the holes yet again, used some antiseize and then started threading them by hand. After several rotations I used a driver (screwdriver type handle with socket attachment) and ran them home. It didn't take a tremendous effort like I was cutting threads but it wasn't silky smooth either. Finished up by torquing to the recommended specs.
20 minutes later I was worried to death that I had cross threaded the holes so i disassembled the whole thing, checked the holes, and reassembled. The threads looked fine on both the bolts and the holes themselves but they still didn't go in silky smooth.
I'm now worried sick that I've damage my heads. Would I be able to tell if they were cross threaded by looking at them? Am I just being a freakin' nut about the whole thing?
Any input is greatly appreciated.
As I was installing the breather bolts I noticed they seemed to go in sorta "rough" so I pulled it apart and recleaned the breather holes on the heads and tried again. Same thing. Shined a flashlight in the holes and the threads seemed fine so went for the install again. Same thing. Finally, I cleaned the holes yet again, used some antiseize and then started threading them by hand. After several rotations I used a driver (screwdriver type handle with socket attachment) and ran them home. It didn't take a tremendous effort like I was cutting threads but it wasn't silky smooth either. Finished up by torquing to the recommended specs.
20 minutes later I was worried to death that I had cross threaded the holes so i disassembled the whole thing, checked the holes, and reassembled. The threads looked fine on both the bolts and the holes themselves but they still didn't go in silky smooth.
I'm now worried sick that I've damage my heads. Would I be able to tell if they were cross threaded by looking at them? Am I just being a freakin' nut about the whole thing?
Any input is greatly appreciated.
#2
Are they both the same thread - or, is one course thread and the other fine thread? The most susceptible part will be the soft aluminum on the head side. You should be able to see any damage if you cross threaded it. Another possibility is the new fastener is a different class fit, ie, a class1 versus a class2 fit. A third possibility is the bore of the holes could have had a bunch of crud in there like old loktite. You could always gently run a tap (with the correct thread) into the hole. If you are able to achieve the correct torque on the fastener then you should be good to go. Why on earth would harley have a tapped aluminum fastener hole without the use of a helicoil? On aircraft, all aluminum parent material hole bores get helicoils.
Last edited by harley_jeff; 12-25-2011 at 12:38 PM.
#3
Thanks for the reply Jeff!
As far as I know the bolts are the same thread/pitch since the kit is compatible with my particular bike and I didn't use what I would consider to be excessive force to seat them. As mentioned I did use a socket on the end of a driver handle once they were started but didn't have to go insane wrenching them. The best way I can describe it would be "snug' or "rough".
I cleaned the holes after removing the old assembly but before installing the new one. The holes were pretty funky with gunk a few light metal particles that I guess were left over from machining because it hadn't been disassembled since coming from the factory and I don't think removing the factory bolts would have created the particles. In hindsight, I remember thinking the factory bolts felt "rough" coming out as well.
Man this is a horrible feeling LOL!!!
As far as I know the bolts are the same thread/pitch since the kit is compatible with my particular bike and I didn't use what I would consider to be excessive force to seat them. As mentioned I did use a socket on the end of a driver handle once they were started but didn't have to go insane wrenching them. The best way I can describe it would be "snug' or "rough".
I cleaned the holes after removing the old assembly but before installing the new one. The holes were pretty funky with gunk a few light metal particles that I guess were left over from machining because it hadn't been disassembled since coming from the factory and I don't think removing the factory bolts would have created the particles. In hindsight, I remember thinking the factory bolts felt "rough" coming out as well.
Man this is a horrible feeling LOL!!!
#4
If the bolts are the same pitch and thread they should go in with no effort unless you where in fact cross threading them. But you would see that if you took a look at the threads. My guess would be the bolts aren't indeed the same thread/pitch. Possibly they sent you the wrong bolts? Try putting the stock ones in and see if they feel the same way at the new bolts. If they go in with no effort, then take the bolts up to a hardware store. And use the thread/pitch guide and see if they match up.
#5
Thanks for the reply Jeff!
As far as I know the bolts are the same thread/pitch since the kit is compatible with my particular bike and I didn't use what I would consider to be excessive force to seat them. As mentioned I did use a socket on the end of a driver handle once they were started but didn't have to go insane wrenching them. The best way I can describe it would be "snug' or "rough".
I cleaned the holes after removing the old assembly but before installing the new one. The holes were pretty funky with gunk a few light metal particles that I guess were left over from machining because it hadn't been disassembled since coming from the factory and I don't think removing the factory bolts would have created the particles. In hindsight, I remember thinking the factory bolts felt "rough" coming out as well.
Man this is a horrible feeling LOL!!!
As far as I know the bolts are the same thread/pitch since the kit is compatible with my particular bike and I didn't use what I would consider to be excessive force to seat them. As mentioned I did use a socket on the end of a driver handle once they were started but didn't have to go insane wrenching them. The best way I can describe it would be "snug' or "rough".
I cleaned the holes after removing the old assembly but before installing the new one. The holes were pretty funky with gunk a few light metal particles that I guess were left over from machining because it hadn't been disassembled since coming from the factory and I don't think removing the factory bolts would have created the particles. In hindsight, I remember thinking the factory bolts felt "rough" coming out as well.
Man this is a horrible feeling LOL!!!
#6
#7
Jeff,
Its actually the breather bolts that go in each cylinder head.
I solved the riddle fellas'. It was driving me insane so I went down and took it off again LOL! Thoroughly cleaned each hole, ran the both the factory and aftermarket bolts in by hand to confirm fit, and inspected each hole. All threads in each hole from front to back are crisp as can be and look to be in perfect shape.
Anyways, as I was trying different methods I noticed if I tightened the fasteners at the same time, in equal increments, they went in like butta'. I wasn't doing that before, instead I would turn one 4-5 times and then go to the other so I guess they were binding a bit.
Anyways, problem solved, no damage seems to be done, and its looking pretty durn sharp.
Thanks one and all for taking time out of your festivities to help a fella' out!
Its actually the breather bolts that go in each cylinder head.
I solved the riddle fellas'. It was driving me insane so I went down and took it off again LOL! Thoroughly cleaned each hole, ran the both the factory and aftermarket bolts in by hand to confirm fit, and inspected each hole. All threads in each hole from front to back are crisp as can be and look to be in perfect shape.
Anyways, as I was trying different methods I noticed if I tightened the fasteners at the same time, in equal increments, they went in like butta'. I wasn't doing that before, instead I would turn one 4-5 times and then go to the other so I guess they were binding a bit.
Anyways, problem solved, no damage seems to be done, and its looking pretty durn sharp.
Thanks one and all for taking time out of your festivities to help a fella' out!
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#8
#9
CC,
Thanks for the reply!
The new bolts were not chrome. More like an odd gold finish to them (definitely not brass).
As I said I checked the holes and the threads looked fine in both of them as well as the bolts themselves. I'm pretty sure by not tightening equally at the same time it was causing a binding situation because they went in easily when I finally tried turning them at the same time.
Since everything looks good and the bolts are holding the proper torque I'm gonna ride the heck out of it and stop fretting about it.
I can't see the few tiny flecks of metal being from the threads since they don't look galled, pitted, or damaged in any way. As much as I hate not knowing definitively, I guess I'm gonna have to be content with assuming its from factory machining/never been removed before.
Bikes only got a little over 500 miles on it and hasn't had an oil change yet so I'm sure I'll find plenty more metal chips when I go to change the oil .
Thanks for the reply!
The new bolts were not chrome. More like an odd gold finish to them (definitely not brass).
As I said I checked the holes and the threads looked fine in both of them as well as the bolts themselves. I'm pretty sure by not tightening equally at the same time it was causing a binding situation because they went in easily when I finally tried turning them at the same time.
Since everything looks good and the bolts are holding the proper torque I'm gonna ride the heck out of it and stop fretting about it.
I can't see the few tiny flecks of metal being from the threads since they don't look galled, pitted, or damaged in any way. As much as I hate not knowing definitively, I guess I'm gonna have to be content with assuming its from factory machining/never been removed before.
Bikes only got a little over 500 miles on it and hasn't had an oil change yet so I'm sure I'll find plenty more metal chips when I go to change the oil .
#10
Sorry, I should have read your thread more clearly, glad you got it working. Bike look's great btw man. Sweet!
CC,
Thanks for the reply!
The new bolts were not chrome. More like an odd gold finish to them (definitely not brass).
As I said I checked the holes and the threads looked fine in both of them as well as the bolts themselves. I'm pretty sure by not tightening equally at the same time it was causing a binding situation because they went in easily when I finally tried turning them at the same time.
Since everything looks good and the bolts are holding the proper torque I'm gonna ride the heck out of it and stop fretting about it.
I can't see the few tiny flecks of metal being from the threads since they don't look galled, pitted, or damaged in any way. As much as I hate not knowing definitively, I guess I'm gonna have to be content with assuming its from factory machining/never been removed before.
Bikes only got a little over 500 miles on it and hasn't had an oil change yet so I'm sure I'll find plenty more metal chips when I go to change the oil .
Thanks for the reply!
The new bolts were not chrome. More like an odd gold finish to them (definitely not brass).
As I said I checked the holes and the threads looked fine in both of them as well as the bolts themselves. I'm pretty sure by not tightening equally at the same time it was causing a binding situation because they went in easily when I finally tried turning them at the same time.
Since everything looks good and the bolts are holding the proper torque I'm gonna ride the heck out of it and stop fretting about it.
I can't see the few tiny flecks of metal being from the threads since they don't look galled, pitted, or damaged in any way. As much as I hate not knowing definitively, I guess I'm gonna have to be content with assuming its from factory machining/never been removed before.
Bikes only got a little over 500 miles on it and hasn't had an oil change yet so I'm sure I'll find plenty more metal chips when I go to change the oil .
Last edited by Crazy Canuck; 12-26-2011 at 12:58 AM.