I have a 2010 FB Lo with a PC V, the S&S Single Bore Tuned intake and V&H BSS exhaust. I have gotten back into riding in the past year and the bike has steadily gotten "slower".

I like to wind my bike out on occasion and feel some power but am very disappointed at higher (not 6K, more like 4.5K+) RPMs. It just totally feels like its revving faster but not much is actually changing.

I also like to ride two-up with my wife and the bike just really feels like a dog (compared to when I am alone on the bike). Neither my wife nor myself are small. I am 260 (trying to get to 225) and she has no sharp edges.

Having said that, I do not believe I am in search of some horsepower monster. I think what I am after is something that has as flat a torque curve as possible starting at as low RPM as possible and going to as high RPM as possible, with the "flat" portion being above 100 ft/lbs. of torque.

I know, not asking for much right?

Anyway, I have done as much research as I feel like I can to the point where my head is swimming with possibilities.

I BELIEVE I will be punished from a torque perspective by the V&H BSS exhaust but am willing to live with that until I can muster the will to move to a D&D Fatcat or something similar.

I know that I don't want to run a "high" compression and am looking to stay under 10:1. I also KNOW that I don't want to overbuild to get what I am looking for.

I was considering going the "easy" route, get the S&S 583ce cam, have S&S do the 5 axis blah blah head work, use the .030 head gasket in it and call it a day, but if I don't get that torque curve above 100 from say 2.5K/3K - 4.5K I'm going to be disappointed.

Please help if you will in making some recommendations with the reasoning behind them.

P.S. I see this dyno chart and wonder what adding the head work in to the mix would do to bump the curve up a bit (not withstanding the fact that this diagram does not show SAE/STD, etc AND seems to show STOCK HP/TQ nbrs that I don't believe based on everything I have read):

http://www.sscycle.com/images/dyno_c...Stock-2010.jpg

 

First I wouldn't go to big on cylinders. The extra metal with help with temps and the long haul. Doesn't sound like your going to wind out the engine so cast pistons are fine. Defenatly get. 030 head gasket for better quench it will also help with reducing spark knock. Get some adjustable pushrods. Clean up the heads meaning bead blast the runners get all the powdercoating out of the runners. Your stock springs have more than enough presure, valves are ok size too. You can reuse your stoc!k lifters too, but if you dont feel comfortable reusing them then I would get wood lifters and with that being said I suggest a wood 6 cam. Good cam for off idle torque and will take you all the way to 5800 with ease.
You should be at 100/100 if you want more you could do more to the head porting and maybe 1.9 intake have.
before any of this I would get you r crank trued welded and oversize rod bearings. The rod bearings cause of the stock rods are usually eggshaped. Don't bother lightening the crank but if you want you could balance. No need for a timken bearing but I would defenatly go wit se bearing.
Probably looking at 1600 for everything, using stock valves, and crank work. Don't forget the tuner I like TTS master tune.

 

Wow! So I am trying to digest all this, keeping in mind that I have 2 conflicting things going through my mind:

1) I don't want to over build this
2) I don't want to destroy my engine

and a third nagging thought:

3) I may well want more in the future

I was under the (probably mistaken) impression that 100/100 was no reason to hit the bottom end. I have seen some of your other posts (and videos) on the net that certainly have me rethinking that.

It seems to me that if I am going to spend the extra money to do what you are suggesting (have darkhorse do trueing, welding, addressing rods - I would do Timken while in there) then I should probably focus on a build that includes the S&S 106 kit or Zippers 107.

I definitely wasn't thinking that.

That may cause me to pause, think this through, and decide to wait one more season before making such an investment.

Just to make sure we are on same page, you would recommend (using S&S as an example for now):

- Darkhorse crank work
- S&S 106 BB kit
- S&S Head Porting
- TB cleanup?
- TW6 Cams
- Woods lifters
- Adj Pushrods
- SE Compensator
- Clutch???

To get to a fairly bullet-proof true 100+ big flat torque curve? Need a reality check on this.

 

A lot of people go ahead and do up grades to their engines without touching the lower end and that is fine. But you are taking a risk of scissoring the crank and ending up with a engine that will shake badly and be less comfortabl riding. You probably could leave your heads alone and be very pleased. S&S make a good kit, but you will be at compression release territory. Plus you could also save $300 if you buy pistons and have your jugs bored.
I was thinking
SE cast flat tops $180
Bore jugs $100
SE tappered pushrod $170
Cosmetic. 030 head gasket and engine combo $100 ? Not sure on price
Cams $400
Crank service $80 for connecting rod bearings and machining, true weld plug inspect $215
Your at $1300
(Optional)
balancing crank add $250
Wood lifters $300 ?
SE compensator $250
SE heavy clutch $20
Heads stage 2 $500-700
throttlebody port match $100 ?
These are options. I think you will be fine with out. Plus SE stuff usually goes on sale for 20% off.

 

I suggest you find yourself a competent local tuner and talk through what you would like out of this. You will get a different suggestion from everyone you talk to, so you need someone you can get on with, who has a proven record of building your sort of bike, to get you the right build.

Or you can pick up the phone and talk to Hillside Cycle, site sponsors and long-standing tuning experts! They may even call by here and reply to your question!

 

dcgray2,
Here is another view on your build. You are correct; no need to work the lower unit for a basic displacement upgrade with cams. Keep it simple and cost effective; no need to reinvent the wheel to complete an upgrade that has been around for 10 years. Upgrading your 96" to 103" is no different than upgrading 88" to 95".

Heads
Not sold on S&S headwork, sort of a one size fits all approach; better to send heads out for porting. I suggest BigBoyz because Bean's heads are a very cost effective upgrade. You can spend more for a few more bells and whistles but for a basic build, like the one you are planning, IMHO, you really don't need the extra bells and whistles. For about $750, you can get your heads ported, ccd and decked as required, cylinders bored/honed and fitted to pistons, heads drilled for compression releases, pistons, rings and MLS head gaskets.

Cams
Woods 6 is a decent cam but some that run that cam complain of valve train noise. I was talking with a local builder a couple of weeks ago and he had just tuned a motor with the S&S 583e cams and was impressed with the performance. I am partial to Andrews cams have less aggressive ramps, are quiet and there are several cams to choose from. The Andrews 26, 37, 48 or 54 would all make the build a good runner; just depends on where you want the power. Just need to make the cam selection before the heads are worked. Chamber volume would likely need to be increased for the 48 but reduced for the others with later intake close events. The 54 is much like the 37 but with more lift. Suggest that you talk to Bean, or whatever head porter you choose, about cams and your riding style and try to match them up.

Crank
You should definitely check crank runout as part of the process. If runout is reasonable, say, less than .005", leave it alone. Checking now will also provide you with a baseline so you can see if the crank shifts in the future. You won't get your crank serviced by Hoban Brothers (aka Darkhorse) for $295; if you send the crank to them for T/B/W, Timken and rod bearing work, you are looking at $1000 plus the labor cost to R/R your lower unit and the in/out shipping cost; IMHO, just not necessary. If you have the money and want to have this work done, it will make the lower unit stronger but there are plenty of motors, similar to yours, running the OEM crank without issues. Bear in mind that you can tweak any crank, even one that has been worked over by Hoban, Falicon, Rev Performance, etc. If you ride the bike normally, i.e., no burnouts and/or wheel stands and generallly don't beat on the motor; your crank should hold up fine.

Other Stuff
If you have less than 25K miles on your lifters and they are not making any noise; use them. If you select a cam with the same base circle as the OEM cams and the heads are not decked, use the OEM pushrods. Just saying that unless the stack up height of the valve train requires adjustable pushrods, use the OEM pushrods. If you do need adjustables, the SE Quick Install tapered units are not bad.

Change inner cam bearings to the full compliment B168 bearing.

Keep compression under 10:1, more like in the 9.6 range.

Your exhaust is probably holding you back a bit and you could reallize some gain from a 2:1 system and, if you have the $$, changing as part of the build would be a good idea.

Have a conversation with your local tuner. He sees different combinations all the time; pick his brain a bit as well.

Don't rush into this build, take your time, plan and don't lose sight of your goal for early torque, flat curve, not worried about what happens above 4500 rpms.

 

Sounds like some very good advise. I also agree.

One thing that caught my attention with what he said was he would like a long flat torque curve and you don't really see many other cams carrying torque like a wood cam.
Also I hear that its not more so the beating on bike that will shift the crank but also the low rpm two up cruise. That's the reason I suggested the crank be welded. Also the fact that if he does decide to go lil more extreme with the build later on, it would be good peice of mind to know you don't have to worry about splitting the cases for your second time in. Just add what you want and go.
if it wasn't for the crank work I had done I would have gone and done the heads first time in. But very glad I spent the money on the crank first. I spent $630 on the crank for a dynamic balance, lighten, oversize rod bearing, true, plug and weld. My runout is .0003
Another thing is lots of people complain about the wood cams make noise. I have not personally experienced any noise, but also remember that I have no faring around me to trap noise. I will how ever add that my stock compensator has gotten louder since the cam change. You can here it in one of my videos. Ill be on the right side of the bike were push rod tubes are and you here the engine quiet, but then ill go to the primary side and you can here a ticking.

 

That comment was the basis for suggesting the Andrews cam; having thought about it a little more, I would drop the 26 from the list. The 48 was new mid 2010, not a lot of installations, so a lot of information on the cam. However, I have seen dyno data that shows that cam making 95TQ@2000rpms; 100TQ@2500rpms; 100-106TQ between 2500-4500rpms and still making 90TQ at 5000rpms; curve looks like table top. That was in a 96" motor with stock heads and an experimental pipe. Just installed same cams in a friends 2010 Fatboy, no dyno numbers but he is over the moon about the performance. Any of the Andrews cams will make a good runner, as would the Woods 6 but I think the 48 might be just the tickef for the OP as long as the heads are setup for those cams.

Lugging; anything below 2000; I try to keep mine spinning above 2500 but never let her get below 2000. Hard on the crank and I put lugging in the "beating" category. With a softail, the OP also needs to understand that rapid decel from a high rpm range can play havoc with the counter balancers and that can translate to the crank. Just as hard braking without pulling in the clutch can do. For a big bore/cam upgraded, I just wouldn't spend the money for the crank work. Having said that, I would agree that if the OP as future plans for a motor that will make 120 plus torque, attending to the crank now would be a good idea; however, I dd not get that impression from the OP.

 

The .030 hg will bump you up to 9.5-1 Comp roughly(i would just leave it alone), leave the heads alone, leave the crank alone(mine is stock), leave the comp alone until it gives you trouble(mine is a stock compensator), se tapered pushrods work very well, Andrews 37 with new cam bearings, and use the money you saved by not doing the heads and get a 2-1, then get it tuned. If I had it to do over again I'd do this but use a different cam because of my riding style. But what the heck do I know!

 

Wow lots of great info and insight. Thank you!

I am definitely going to do some more thinking. "Measure twice cut once" kind of a deal.

And I will check out the 48 cams first I have heard of them. Also, nice to see some real world feedback on the 583 from S&S.

I try very hard not to lug the bike, and / or do hard engine breaking. I don't do burnouts and dont plan to. Just want to go faster faster and ride two-up with some giddy up.