Look, dj, I'm not looking to get into a flame war, and I usually agree with a lot of what you write. However, I've also learned to question the status quo, and I don't just take as true something that someone posts up on the forums. There are lots of guys whose build experience seems to be just plugging numbers into the Big Boyz calculators, and reposting info they've picked up from the HTT. Not saying that's what you do, but I'm sure you know the guys I'm talking about.

By the way, I can also find dyno charts that show different exhaust systems that outperform the Rinehart TDs. It's just not cut and dried as some guys think.

 

Well according to those charts, my 'lil 95" Stage II puts out almost the same numbers as a stock 110...Kewl

 

B'dude, can you read? You continue to change the context of my comments. The context was and has been an 88" motor in stock or Stage I configuration; you keep taking my comments out of that context as illustrated by your posting dyno charts of 96" and 110" motors. I live my RH TDs but they are/were exhausting a healthy 107" motor. However, I would not recommend installing them on a stock or Stage I 88" motor as a performance upgrade. If you want to spend $900 for the sound, knock yourself out.

Good, because I'm done arguing with you, on this thread anyway, and whether or not you or anybody else agrees, or not, with what I post doesn't cause me to lose any sleep. I don't have a problem with someone taking issue with anything I post but do have an issue when the basis of the issue taken up is wrong.

The only reason I hang here is to help those that want/need help, to dispell the BS that floats around and to encourage guys to DIY their projects. I think the OP has enough information to make an informed decision which is all I was trying to help him with anyway.

 

and you keep trying to take this to a personal level, which I will not do.
I posted a chart on the 88 wlth the roadrage vs rineharts.

You also claimed dyno evidence, which you haven't produced a bit of. I've not taken a single thing you've said out of context, and yes, I read a little english.

I've got yard work to do, happy to talk with you regarding this later, as long as you can keep it civilized.

 

A chart comparing Road Rage and RH TDs on an 88" motor is irrelevant but illusrtrative of the context issu. Every one of my posts regarding a loss of torque when swapping out the OEM "Y" pipe systemf for RH TDs was based on making the change on an 88" motor in stock or Stage I configuration. You have tried to change the context to any H-D motor; that is not what I said and a completely different conversation. That is what I have taken issue with and why I keep responding. I am not trying to convince you that I am right and you are wrong; doesn't matter to me.

There is dyno evidence to support my comments; I have seen it. If I had charts I would post them but I don't, so I can't. They exisit; I don't have the time to surf the web and try to find some. When I have time, I will try to find some. But not having the dyno data doesn't mean that what I have claimed is not based in fact; I don't make stuff up.

Continuing the discussion is pointless unless we can keep it within the original context of my posts, i.e, an 88" motor in stock or Stage I configuration.

 

The "Dyno numbers for baggers" thread that shows up here on and off since '06 has tons of charts starting before there was anything but an 88 and a 95.

That's where I got alot of my personal reference material.

 

Not exactly true,


The bassani chart was an attempt to show the difference between a well respected 2-1 and the RHTDs on an 88 motor.

It's tough to find dyno charts on stock 88 motors. I know, I've looked. I've never had an 88 that didn't become a 95, with higher compression. A stock 88 has more in common with a stock 96 than it does with a higher compression 95. The charts I posted were on stock bikes, stock cams, etc. When 88s ruled the streets, dyno tuning hadn't really become as prevalant as it is now.

I can find all kinds of charts showing other exhaust systems that outperform the Rineharts, like I said earlier. And any of those stock exhaust systems will perform differently with different muffler bodies.

I tend to bristle at wide sweeping comments like "always" and "never", especialy with performance motor building, because there's so many variables that it's often difficult to predict until you actually build it. It's usually better to say "who knows".

So, if you say you've experienced a torque loss with an 88 when changing to Rineharts vs the stock y-pipe, I'll take you at your word. Butt dyno or actual. I've never put Rineharts on an 88, so I'm gonna say I don't know.

 

I have gained enough information to make me think about purchasing the mufflers and maybe a tuner before jumping to the true duals. Even though the thread has headed in a different direction it has also added much to the question I asked without asking. I am definitely looking for the sound change to begin with but a man is never happy with the power he has and always wants more. It appears to me that I may lose some low end but I am also thinking it can be gained back once a tuner is added. I may clean up the Y-pipe first and add the mufflers then add the tuner and true duals later. Thank you both for all the great information. At risk of starting another long conversation about "brands." Do either of you have good or bad history with tuners that would avoid a Harley Dealership tuning? I really enjoy doing all repairs, maintenance and mods myself.

 

I just realized that after riding with my father and fellow rider of a '03 SE Road King, his bike has the standard head pipe set up and Bassani slip ons. I am starting to wonder if the previous owner wanted the sound or was told to steer away from the true duals. Keep in mind that this bike comes from Harley with the 103" motor. Again not sure if it was a cost savings or just wanted the Bassani's slip ons. And would both of you agree if I were to add a tuner to the mix could I avoid losing the low end torque with true duals?

 

But kind of true? Show me the post where I disconnected the torque comment from an 88" motor"

Still not relevant to the topic.

I know but I will keep looking until I find one.

Fair enough; you can bristle away on my posts whenever you feel like bristling; I enjoy the exchange. Your are one of the few on this forum that I will take up a debate with.