Ok so here is my situation. After having one indy do my 103 kit (9.8 - 1 cr) with SE 211's I wasn't happy with how it ran cause the power came on too late. Then I had head work done by another indy and went with his recommended andrews 54 running same cr. Power is down lower where I like it but I lost almost 5hp on the same dyno I had it checked before. Torque was close to the same (87 hp 104 tq). I want to bump up the cr to about 10.5 - 1 to hopefully get the power potential from the headwork and the indy I'm dealing with now says an andrews tw 60 would work well with that cr and should get around 100hp to 110 torque or better and a little more fun factor with how it pulls. I'm sick of this trial and error ****. I knew very little about bikes when I first got mine and I think the first two indy's figured I'd be satisfied with a little extra oomph and keeping the cr down. This will be my 3rd set of cams(sick of buying new cams) and I would like to find a place that may take a trade with a little cash or even someone who may want to trade even up. I know I should have had it all done at the same time the first time but I think both indy's were trying not to sacrifice any reliability or heat issues by raising cr. Will the tw 60 andrews be a good choice? Are there any better options? Anyone know where I can look? The bike I'm referring to is the one in my sig. Thanks.

 

If your head porter is the one who told you to go with the 60, that you will get 110, go with his recommendation, everyone else will be speculating not knowing the characteristics of the port job.

 

That 103"er ought to be pushing off much more than that.
Hell, 3 of our 98"ers, this past spring, with Andrews 37's, and our Stage II Heads showed between 106-108 hp, and 108-111 ft/lbs at Doc's Performance Tuning, Mineola, Fla., Thayers Sales & Service, Corfu N.Y., and Joe's Cycle Repair, Mechanicville, N.Y.
Scott

 

Big Boyz did the head work. Just smoothing and porting. No valve work. They are the ones that recommended the 54's and installed them. Seems to me I can remember him saying to me that there was no way in hell I'd see 100 hp unless I did injector and throttle body work also. Claimed there was a lot of "happy dynos" out there giving inflated #'s. I guess I'm not sure what the hell I got for headwork. Yeah! Maybe the indy that is going to do the new cams, pushrods, head milling, valve springs, etc can tell by looking at the port work and make a good decision as to what cam to use. He is the one that is thinking an andrews tw 60 may be a good choice running 10.5-1 cr. Any idea where I could trade or swap cams?

 

Those numbers I cited are ALL correct, on Dynojet 250i's, tuned by VERY talented men. As a matter of fact, Doc travels around the country conducting training seminars for dyno owners, and Dynojet requested that Joe do the same, but he told us that living out of a suitcase is not his cup of tea. Dan Thayer's tuning abilities are top notch as well.
Me thinks that changing cams is not going to be the magic bullet.
Scott

 

Scott I believe that there are some very strong running 103's out there and I'm not doubting what you posted. Sometimes I think that this ****(engine modifying) is like black magic or something. I'm pretty frustrated with the amount of money I've spent so far for the results I got. Most of it is my fault because of my ignorance when I first started having the work done 3 years ago. Should have all been done the first time by the same guy with higher #'s in mind. Guess it's hard for someone to give the right advice on how much power you want. With most of us it is never enough.
As far as being the magic bullet, a cam change alone I would agree but what about bumping up compression and cam change to hopefully get the whole package working better together? Different heads? Maybe have my heads reworked? I guess at this point I have to hope for the best and trust my indy's advice that what he thinks will work will actually work when he takes a look. Going to cost me another 900 - 1200 bucks depending on how I make out with new or used cams to try and get this thing right. Or I could just leave the freakin' thing alone as it runs really good right now. Just not as strong as I'd like.

 

The Andrews 54 is a great cam. You got good advise on using it. It likes compression in the 10.25:1 range. I'm running 10.3:1 with street ported heads and could have gone a little higher. It makes great torque from 2500rpms on up to 5000rpms and horsepower continues to climb through 5800rpms.

Big Boyz runs a Factory Pro dyno. You cannot compare numbers between that and a Dyno Jet. If you just want to chase numbers your bike will likely never run right.

My 107 running 54H cams makes 97hp/107tq on Big Boyz dyno. Does that mean it's down on power compared to all the Dyno Jet numbers being thrown around? I guarantee it runs as well as any other similar 107 build that shows 112-115hp and 120-125tq on a Dyno Jet.

I saw some guy post the other day that he went to five different dyno tuners until he finally found one that gave him the numbers he wanted. Seems like an expensive waste of time to get a piece of paper. But as long as he's happy and can now post "bragging" numbers in his signature that's all that matters I guess.

You won't find a better dyno tuner in this part of the country than Big Boyz.

 

No black magic, but rather mathematics.
Proper air availability, cam timing events, compression, cubic inch, rod length, exhaust, etc, and lastly the state of tune.
Scott

 

HD Do you think that if I were to just bump up the cr a little the andrews 54 would work better? I'm really not looking for #'s but more seat of the pants pull.

 

You will have to pull the heads and cut chambers to 82cc to increase the compression to put the 54s in a "happy" place.

Consider leaving the heads alone and just making a cam change; cheaper. You need a cam with an earlier intake close. If running a stock head gasket, the Andrews 48 installed retarded 4* would wake things up. The Woods 5-6 or TMan's 555C or even the TW37 installed straight up or advanced 4* would also work are also good options.