Rude, insulting post removed by moderator

 

I've got to disagree with you on that one. Those of us who live in the less populated areas of the western part of the US like our sixth gear. Out here when I'm running out on the open highway the average speed is 80 to 85 mph, or 129 to 137 kph. I really like my sixth gear then. Perhaps HD figured that they didn't need to explain the concept of overdrive.

Crazy

 

LastHalf - you aren't sure about why the fuel efficiency would improve by revving higher than you currently use. Well the reason is about engine efficiency - engines have parts of their rev range where they are more efficient than other parts of the range (this means getting the most energy from the fuel used). Usually the maximum efficiency coincides with where maximum torque is produced or slightly less than that. On a stock Harley I think that maximum torque point is around 3200 to 3500 (so for all those riders that claim to like torque - don't go looking for it down around 2000 RPM). So the maximum engine efficiency is at maybe 3000 to 3300.

That of course is only the engine - gearing, weight and aerodynamics also play a part too in getting you to your fuel consumption figure but I hope that helps explain why a few hundred RPM more from you can make the engine work where it's efficient (and happy) and deliver good mileage.

 

Thank You...... That needed to be said.

Canadian Dude, You got to ride a bike where IT'S happy !
My 07 Bagger is the 1st HD I've ever had with a tach, and I almost never look at it except to glance down once in a while out of curiosity to see where I'm reving. I find that no matter what speed or gear I'm usually cruising around 2800-3300 RPM. 4-5000+ easy while having fun.
As far as not taking your foot from it's comfy highway peg to downshift, hell, stomping and romping around cars is a whole lotta fun.
I'm no mechanic, but, I think you lugged your motor to death.

 

I enjoy the benefit of having German autobahns in easy reach of my home here in the UK, with much higher speed limits than most other countries in the world. I am very happy running my ole 5-speed bike with stock gearing up into the high 90s for miles at a time, in other words 4,000rpm plus. Don't need no overdrive! Just have to keep out of the way of those darned Porsches and big Mercs.....

 

Actually I almost typed `efficiency of the combustion` when I questioned how revving say 3500 rpm can be more efficient at a steady speed than 2500 or 2200 rpm, but didn`t because while at 2150 it didn`t sound like it was lugging, rather it was still running smoothly implying I was getting full energy out of the fuel so felt the comment might not make sense. The concept would have made more sense if you`re talking 1500 rpm, which is clearly not efficient or where the engine wants to be as evidenced by the lurching etc and the lower rpm certainly wouldn`t result in optimum fuel economy. I assumed that most speed limits are 55-60 mph and that Harley provided 6th to reduce strain on the engine and improve fuel efficiency at that speed. In hindsight and looking at it from a different perspective its obvious that was illogical thinking (i.e. what would you need 5th for if 6th was for 100kph other than getting you there quicker.....but I recall talking with Harley riders that were excited about 6th because it would allow them to run their engines slower while cruising, but they were probably talking at 120+ and I thought they meant at speeds I consider normal and legal).

It also wasn`t ALWAYS pinging or to an extent I thought was extreme/loud - any pinging I did get sounded mild/quiet and I`d read in an article that some motors can live with mild detonation. And as I thought I mentioned above, I tried it in 5th for some time and it pinged anyway, so I chaulked that guys theory up to bs. Combined with running premium and in the middle of this huge trip, all I could do (other than ask a couple dealers about it who told me anything over 2000 is fine, and they didn`t recommend retarding the timing or changing the fuel map so I`m far from qualified to suggest it to the experts) was to back off when I heard pinging. Then again just because it may sound like its running properly doesn`t mean its in the sweet spot of efficiency. So thanks for the explanation about the torque peak and efficiency so when I`m rolling along in 5th at 90 and 100 kph limit roads driving 100 and 110 kph respectively, I`ll understand why its not only good for the engine but for fuel economy (more fuel-air mixtures exploding per minute notwithstanding).

 

I`ve had a lot of stuff including snowmobiles, motorcycles and dirt bikes and the dirt bikes had no tach. I`d go by engine feel and sound, and I`ve never had a problem with them, using 4th where it felt good and 5th where THAT felt good. I paid $1000 for an Interceptor 750, drove it 25,000 km for 7 years or so, and sold it for $1500 after never changing so much as a spark plug. The Interceptor being a v-4 turned 5000 rpm in 5th at 100 kph but maybe if Honda added an over-drive I would have destoyed that motor too....I don`t know, I guess it depends how it sounded and if I considered it to be lugging. I understood Harley`s are low revving tractors where lower revs were normal, so since it ran smoothly at 2150 and the 2 dealers said that`s definately not lugging, I ran it there when on flattish terrain assuming 6th was to reduce revs 4-500 rpm because older Harleys were spinning faster than they needed to. Bad assumption!

In summary - I know you have to ride an engine where`s it`s happy. Since it pinged in both 5th AND 6th, and going by what the dealers said (its happy over 2000 rpm), I rode it and it sounded happy in 6th. Your example about rarely looking at a tach because you`re not used to one, is good, because I bet if I didn`t have a tach I may have felt it ran even better at those 2500+ rpm range. To be honest though, knowing I had 6 gears I probably still would have ran it at 2150, thinking it sounds fine. As for the foot on the highway pegs....yes down/up shifting with the heel-toe shifter is fun, but on a 20,000 km trip some days that gets old, and it`s nice to just use what I thought was supposed to be huge v-twin low rpm torque to go by people if there`s no oncoming traffic without the need for shifting which would be needed on a lesser motor.

 

I agree with you that it is to our benefit (if used appropriately...I didn`t see it referred to as over-drive on the bike, and the previous owner didn`t have an owner`s manual, so I bought the bike and started my 20,000 km trip immediately from his door, thinking I`d be taking it to dealers for oil changes etc. along the way and knowing the correct tire pressures from the dealer didn`t think I needed one yet), though it may be true they also had to do it for emissions reasons. Perhaps what he meant was that the impetus for 6th wasn`t for our benefit, but that lower rpm`s at 120+ kph speeds was a side-benefit.

In other words they probably didn`t `do it for our benefit`, but it still benefited those that ride at higher speeds on freeways where 120+ won`t get you a ticket. There was a long stretch across the prairies in Canada and in the states where I was actually going 120 kph because the speed limit was 110 kph but frankly it didn`t seem to be running any smoother than it was at 100 kph. Maybe slightly more rumbly, but I didn`t think it was enough to be a problem or hurt anything, and may have thought that was normal for a Harley. Many many people like the slight throb you feel from the engine so as new Harley rider I didn`t think that meant it was lugging - rather it was part of the Harley experience.

 

Thanks. I`ll consider the oil cooler for sure, and though I don`t believe it or the tuner should be necessary on a stock bike (I`d prefer to keep it stock), if stock detonates regardless if I`m in 5th gear using premium then I don`t have much choice....unless the dealer can simply do a `re-flash`, whatever that entails but presumably retards the timing a bit and/or adds a bit more fuel across the range. It`s heat related because it stopped when I went up North, as in Northern Canada (it was pinging just North of the border in other words), even when using regular fuel to get to work and back. Had pinging returned I would have tried premium but didn`t need to. Yellowstone at altitude AND hot weather was the worst by far and may have caused much of the damage. I`d `back out`of the pinging when I could, not continuing to ride it because I knew it was bad, but it was either continue on home across the continent (which it did) or call a tow truck to a dealer. But any dealers I stopped at kept saying 2150 is not lugging. They also didn`t suggest a re-flash so who was I to tell them?

 

I think when you heard low rpm torquers they were being compared to crotch rockets, like GSXR's and such, which I believe rev very high compared to an HD . I wouldn't sell the bike if you like it, just adjust your riding style. Ride that thing at the lower edge of that "powerband" so that if you grab some throttle you can feel it. If its pinging, your probably riding too low in RPM and or needs a tune, most likely both. I found my 6th gear pretty useless at legal speeds. I got a 30T tranny pulley and that helped but I'm still usually speeding in 6th.