Exhaust System Topics New and old exhaust system discussions. Fitment issues to sound bites and suggestions. Post them here.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by: Jekill and Hyde

AMS Lifters?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
  #1  
Old 09-30-2006, 01:18 PM
Sleeps In Trees's Avatar
Sleeps In Trees
Sleeps In Trees is offline
Road Master
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location:
Posts: 892
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default AMS Lifters?

Anyone running these? I'm considering a set to try & relieve some of my valve train noise. Opinions would be appreciated.

Thanks,

VicW.
 
  #2  
Old 09-30-2006, 02:02 PM
mopardave's Avatar
mopardave
mopardave is offline
Elite HDF Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,592
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
Default RE: AMS Lifters?

Why AMS?
 
  #3  
Old 09-30-2006, 03:10 PM
Sleeps In Trees's Avatar
Sleeps In Trees
Sleeps In Trees is offline
Road Master
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location:
Posts: 892
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: AMS Lifters?

From the AMS site:

AMS Johnson-Hylift Lifters
for all Twin Cam Harley engines
From 1999 - 2001, Johnson-Hylift supplied lifters to Harley-Davidson...
Johnson-Hylift designed and produced a special piston and valve body
to work across the temp ranges and varying oil psi typically encountered
on an air-cooled engine such as the Harley. Since late 2001, HD has used
Delphi brand hydraulic lifters. That's why there was a Harley p/n change
from 18538-99 to 18538-99A and now 18538-99B. However, Delphi did not
use a 0.655" hi-volume / hi-pressure plunger piston and valve body
specifically designed for Harley as found in the Johnson-Hylift lifters.
Instead, Delphi essentially used a small block Chevy lifter. The main
difference is the Delphi lifter tries to boost the hydraulic psi by decreasing
the piston diameter, but this leads to a smaller high pressure oil reservoir.
The volume is too small and allows the lifter to clatter. That may be why
so many of the late model Twin-Cam bikes are noisy. After doing some
research AMS learned these Delphi version 18538-99B lifters are made too
small to stand up to Harley's heavy valve spring pressure. The oil reservoir
inside the lifter is too small. It doesn't hold enough oil to let the lifter bleed
off under normal use and still have a cushion of compressed oil to take up
valve train slack. Note: ALL lifters bleed off during operation and even
more-so when the bikes sits, engine off.

AMS went back to Johnson-Hylift's Chuck Hicks, the original
manufacturer / engineer of the earlier HD 18538-99 lifters, which
don't seem to be as noisy as those made by Delphi. Working with Chuck,
AMS modified a Johnson-Hylift lifter, to accept a very precise check valve
from an A900 Ford Mustang lifter. Then we used a large plunger that
allows more oil reservoir volume, and a ball seat that fits much tighter,
yet has an oil feed groove to allow more upper rocker box oiling. What
this does is give us a lifter with a much bigger internal oil reservoir that
will keep the lifter / pushrod from bleeding too much and bottoming out.
The bigger reservoir maintains a cushion of oil inside. The ball seat
ensures better top-end rocker oiling and better pushrod tip fit.... all of
which makes for a quieter lifter.

Our p/n for these AMS Hylift lifters is LIF2148. We recommend using stock
non-adjustable pushrods with them... however adjustable pushrods will work
too - but it does require getting the preload set within the .080" to .100" range.

There are a dozen other things that can cause "lifter" noise - it can be coil
bind, rocker to spring cap interference, spring cap to stems / guide length
interference, poor oiling, high lift cam profile causing loft, overheating motor,
wrong oil viscosity for ambient temperatures, aerated oil, low oil pressure,
gear drive backlash, etc. However if you're convinced you've eliminate all of
these things, and the lifters still rattle, then the next step is to try another set
of lifters, preferably the AMS LIF2148's with their larger oil reservoirs. Many
times this will lessen or eliminate the noise.
VicW.
 
  #4  
Old 09-30-2006, 03:21 PM
mopardave's Avatar
mopardave
mopardave is offline
Elite HDF Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,592
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
Default RE: AMS Lifters?

I would use these if I was going to try to solve any problem that i thought my conventional lifters were causing.
http://www.schubeckracing.com/new2/i...tion=107:53:55
 
  #5  
Old 09-30-2006, 03:52 PM
mopardave's Avatar
mopardave
mopardave is offline
Elite HDF Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,592
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
Default RE: AMS Lifters?

This is the first I've read about the AMS lifters (from your post taken from their site), but one thing I see in their verbage that is not accurate is the fact that they say that Delphi "essentially used a small block Chevy lifter". The main reason i say that is that the diameter of a SBC lifter would not allow it to work in a TC. The diameters of the big three's V-8 lifters are:Chevy (.842), Ford (.874) and Mopar (.903). The Mopar is the one you are looking at in a TC. Anyway, if they were simply talking about the internal workings, then it makes more sense. Sadly, lifter tech has not changed very much in the industry sine 1970 except for Shubeck's. Read all the info you can on the web and on his site and see what you think. You'll also notice that his lifters are banned in almost every form of racing where the rule book is designed to help the not so deep pockets compete with the deep pockets.
I had noticed the noise coming from my valvetrain and the dealer, of course, said it was normal. I don't have to worry about that bikes valvetrain anymore since an illegal drunk mexican nearly killed me and my wife last month and of course totalled my 05 Nightrain. I will be installing these (Shubeck lifters) in the new bike when I do cams. The new bike time frame is contingent upon when I am able to walk/ride again.
I hope this helps.
 
  #6  
Old 09-30-2006, 03:59 PM
Sleeps In Trees's Avatar
Sleeps In Trees
Sleeps In Trees is offline
Road Master
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location:
Posts: 892
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: AMS Lifters?

Sorry to hear about y'all getting hit Dave, man that SUX! I hope you're both healing up alright?

On a different note, IMO this country is getting over-run w/illegals...something needs to be done (other than catering to em) as the problem will only get worse.

VicW.
 
  #7  
Old 09-30-2006, 04:15 PM
mopardave's Avatar
mopardave
mopardave is offline
Elite HDF Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,592
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
Default RE: AMS Lifters?

Amen Bro. On a positive side (depending on how you look at it) I'm learning a lot about a lot of different things because all I seem to do any more is sit here on the computer and read.
As far as our injuries go, we were pretty damn lucky just to be alive. My wife got off relatively easy....a shattered left leg just above the ankle (compound fracture sticking out the front). They put rods inside the bones and pinned it all together. Aside from that shwe got the usual bumps, scrapes and bruises. I was her buffer. I got a broken right leg (just above the ankle in six places). They did surgery and put a titanium plate with 10 screws in it to hold it all back together. There is an 11th screw connecting the two bones together to hold the broken one in place while it heals. They will take that one out later after it heals. My left leg has a different type of break where the side of the bone is shattered but, lengthwise at least, the bone is still intact. this is very good since I can at least get around on my walker. I credit my Carolina boots with saving my legs (9"). My wife was wearing a pair of HD boots that are a much lower cut. Along with that I got 5 broken ribs, some scrapes, full body bruising and a pretty good concussion/minor skull fracture. If all that wasn't bad enough, Halifax medical Center sent me home after five days in ICU and said heal up. Six days later I was back in an ambulance headed to Florida Hospital Flagler because of severe pain/blood bressure drop (60 over 40). Four days later after numerous tests they decided to remove my spleen. All of this started back on the night of Aug 12th. We are healing and we will be back.
 
  #8  
Old 09-30-2006, 04:47 PM
Sleeps In Trees's Avatar
Sleeps In Trees
Sleeps In Trees is offline
Road Master
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location:
Posts: 892
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: AMS Lifters?

Sounds like quite an ordeal Dave, but it's good to hear that you're both healing well & on the rebound. Hang in there!

VicW.
 
  #9  
Old 09-30-2006, 06:23 PM
mopardave's Avatar
mopardave
mopardave is offline
Elite HDF Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,592
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
Default RE: AMS Lifters?

Allow me to correct myself, they did switch to .842 when they went to the twin cam. Strange. I'm guessing that having a larger lifter diameter does not matter as much on a roller (compared to a flat tappet).
 
  #10  
Old 10-02-2006, 10:23 PM
Sleeps In Trees's Avatar
Sleeps In Trees
Sleeps In Trees is offline
Road Master
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location:
Posts: 892
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: AMS Lifters?

Nobody has any experience w/these lifters?

VicW.
 


Quick Reply: AMS Lifters?



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:54 PM.