As some of you know. I was planning on 96 in build with 204 cams. Also I wanted to have my crank trued and welded. So I was asking about if I could pull the wrist pins out of the pistons with out actually removing them from the bores. Many of you said do it right and get rings an hone, others were not too sure. And the few said it could be done but with complications.
I like to do things right so I priced out a rehone and rings. OK well for $300 more I could go to a SE103 kit with a heavier cluth spring, and the air cleaner I can sell for $90. Hell thats cheap I can even get it cheaper with my discount.
Well well well wouldnt you know. I changed my plans. All thanks to the helfpul members of this forum. So I would like to take this time to thank everyone for helping me spend more money and getting my wife to roll her eyes once more again at me.

My new build is now a 103, heavy clutch spring, crank trued and welded, comp releases, 1.725 rocker arms, se204 camshaft, .030 HG.
Now I dont know if I should have told you guys this????? Probobly thinking of going to the 110 bore. I mean why not Im going to have the cases appart, might as well bore the cases for the cylinders and get the lefty bearing. Hell why stop there fueling cam plate here I come. Mo7erfrikin forum.......Damn that SE204 going to be too small for that build.....

 

Smart move; 103" is big enough. I doubt the new clutch spring will hold for long; mine lasted about 2500 miles with a 95" with 204 cams (104TQ/94HP) before the clutch started slipping. A VPC solved that problem. The bike will run good but I predict that you will dump the 204 cams within six months of finishing the build. Don't get me wrong, I like the 204 and think it a very under rated cam; however, the ground in advance makes it prone to detonation with the fuel we have available in most places today.

There are just too many cam choices that will perform better by allowing you to set compression where you need it without worrying about detonation.

 

Forum members are GREAT at spending other forum members' $$$! Congrats on your build.

 

Don't forget to have the muffler bearings replaced.....The engine will rattle really loud if you don't!!!! lol

 

You can get just the SE 103" flat top pistons for $140 after 20% off and have your stock cylinders bored. The hd clutch spring is about $25 I've been all over the place with 204 cams. Best bet with 103" is sticking with .045 head gaskets. Boogaloo has 103"/204/1.725 set-up and is very happy with it. Another member here (staind ?) has this combo installed in his trike and is very pleased.

 

Compression is one of my concerns, as the 103 kit is for the 255 cams and those are ment for low compression pistons. Do any of you know the cc's in these pistons?
Having my stock cylinders bored will save me some more dough. I might do that. Ill have weigh my options as it will be easier to sell 96 in pistons with the cylinders as a matched set.

I have mixed feelings about the cam. SE cams are quiet, but a what cost? I have done a lot of out of the box thinking on cams. Seems like overlap helps to control heat as air cooled engines tend to overheat. Also the fact that the SE cams have earlier exhaust valve opening, wich makes your exhaust come alive, controls heat as well, but at the expence of what critical cylinder presure that raises or helps prolong the torque curve.
Something else to comsider is that the SE intake close events mirror a perfect combonation for there avalible stock. Finding a matched set is easy, but when you get to the aftermarket stuff there are many more variables to chose from. This makes the SE stuff limited on what they offer.
Also the lift of the SE 204 cam is less than desired for a bigger cu in., thats why I opted for the 1.725 rocker arms. That extra .030 is just what the 103 needs to help with breathing. Lot of you guys think that adding the 1.725 rocker arms extends the duration some. This is not true valve timing is valve timing you may get a faster valve lift, but you will not net a sooner or later valve opening. Unless you have a torque degreer on your cams like the newer car engines do.
I do like the woods 555 cam they came out with, separation looks good later exhast valve opening (creates heat but gets that torque curve to hang around much longer), and the 242 duration is the duration I was shooting for. BUT. Lots of people say that these cams are noisy, and I dont mind noise. Hell got a ThunderHeader and my trans wines in first. Though I dont want my engines to sound like it has marbles in it. So I amd still waiting on someone to post a video of these cams. The lift on this cam is nice also.
All this I take into consideration, then I think about the fact that the Harley engine is a 45 degree engine that uses the same crank pin for both cylinders. Could this be why SE only offers a cam with split duration cams and earlier exhaust opening? I mean the engines bottom dead center is not the imaginary verticle straight up and down line. It is after that vertical. so does momentum play a roll or gravity, probobly not cause it is just a roting assembly, but there is a reason why the engine says potato and shakes.
On that same note the intake velocity is all messed up it is not a smooth motion as the engine is in mid firing when the intake valve is already opened for the oposing cylinder. So what you end up with is a smooth opening with a shock of vacume in the intake. SE considers all of this that is why there cams are so radical on there valve timing. Just compair the number to any aftermarket out there the 255 alone has 24 degrees difference in duration timing.
So SE cam that was designed to make this engine come alive with the technology of the engine ground in, but that same technology gives them a kit of a miniscule 103 cu in kit paired with a 58 mm throtle body and a intake closing of 55 degrees after BDC. Or settle for a aftermarket cam that has potential for a good running engine, but with the presence of more noise.

See how I get so confused

 

Nobody, and I mean NOBODY was more confused about cams than me. I'm staying with the 204's for my 96" project and that key is staying at 96". I believe if I were to go with a 103/106/107" build that I would opt for a different cam. A local dealer knocks $60 off Woods cams if they install it. That makes the 555 look better. But I got a great deal on 204's and add some used 1.725 rockers I'm still well under the Woods cost. I plan on being at 96" for a few years so I'll stick with what I have as when the $$ is available for the bigger build I'll sell the 204/rockers and have the money for the appropriate cams. May well have some good used 555's by then

 

N-Gin,
You are overthinking the build. Lurk around the dyno section of some other H-D forums and find a dyno chart you like and replicate the build. A cam gets "smaller" with more displacement; a 204 will perform very different in a 103" engine than in a 96" or 88", all things being equal. There are several cams that will perform similarly and you won't be far off if you select one over the other. Andrews TW54, TMan 525/555, Woods TW6 to name a few, will all work well with stock heads/valves/springs. As for SE cams, the SE254 or SE259E might be a better choice than the 255.

You just need to pull the trigger and move on.

 

oh man, keep going like that, and you will talk yourself into not doing anything!

IMO on the smaller SE cams the larger overlap basically is a means to avoid the cam from requiring decompresson valves. like the 211 cam for example, you dont typically need comp. releases to run them. and when you see dynos of them the torque comes on kinda late, around or just after 3k rpms.

other cam grinders use intake closing time and lobe separation to build torque earlier, but in many instances compression releases are necessary to keep the starter alive.

and as stated above, the more displacement you add will require a lager cam consideration for best results.

 

If you use the Woods lifters the noise issue isn't there. They really work.

Also to a small degree the duration is increased with the 1.75 rockers. The measurments are taken 0.053 off the seat. A 1.75 rocker will get there a little sooner than a 1.62. rocker.