Which high performance engine?
#1
12-09-2009 | 05:03 PM
Thread Starter
|
Road Warrior
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,465
Likes: 60
From: Port St. Lucie, FL
Which high performance engine?
I'm about to pull the trigger on an engine upgrade. I got a quote from my local dealership for $3,500 OTD price for a 103 Screaming Eagle upgrade which includes V&H Pro Pipe 2 into 1 Chrome. High Flow SE High Flow AC. Super Tuner SE 251 or SE 259 cams Pistons, boring, Head work Gaskets/seals/fluids, Install/Dyno.
Now the question: is the above a good deal and is it a noticeable change over my stock '09 FXDC? I'm not a drag racer but like to out accelerate traffic.
Now here's where my ego kicks in. For $7,300 OTD and trading my stock engine in with 6K miles, I can have a Jim's high performance 120 cu engine installed. Or possibly go all out for another $800 more and have the Jim's 130 engine installed.
Common sense says stay with the 103 mods, ego asks are the Jims 120 and 130 engine civilized for in town local riding and distance reliability?
I'm looking for a good balance between torque and horse power, torque being more important to me at lower rpm's.
I appreciate your feed back.
Now the question: is the above a good deal and is it a noticeable change over my stock '09 FXDC? I'm not a drag racer but like to out accelerate traffic.
Now here's where my ego kicks in. For $7,300 OTD and trading my stock engine in with 6K miles, I can have a Jim's high performance 120 cu engine installed. Or possibly go all out for another $800 more and have the Jim's 130 engine installed.
Common sense says stay with the 103 mods, ego asks are the Jims 120 and 130 engine civilized for in town local riding and distance reliability?
I'm looking for a good balance between torque and horse power, torque being more important to me at lower rpm's.
I appreciate your feed back.
#2
12-09-2009 | 05:54 PM
Cruiser
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 123
Likes: 1
Well... it sounds to me like you're getting bent over pretty good, IMO... But then if money's no object... what the hey!
OTOH, I'm facing the same decision but looking at the 107/117/120/124 built on my stock cases.
The way I see it is all-bore 107 done right will get me 120+ and 120+. It will be civilized around town and go like stink when I whack it. I do a little dragging and would think a 107 and a few tweaks here and there should get me very low 11s and ideally high 10s in the 1/4.
The 117 would substitue a 4 3/8 crank for my 4" and the 124 would bump that to 4 5/8. I'd expect around 130+/130+ or 140+/140+ respectively. Now, the problem is that when you get up there around the ragged TQ/ HP edge, stuff starts breaking. There are additional suspension upgrades I'd want to do, maybe add a 6 spd and beef up the tranny regardless. Add chain drive, maybe a larger rear tire. Even after all that - the reality is the dyna chassis cannot handle all the power.
IMHO, 120+ and 120+ is about all these chassis can handle riding like I ride and one has to be real careful rolling on power in anything but a straight line. I'll say it again - a big, high torque/HP engine requires constant focus on the street. Even at the track, the big-inch guys struggle to hook. It's an issue and more than one member here and elsewhere has said they wished they'd stayed smaller. A couple on another forum in fact have stepped down in size after going real big.
...and before anyone calls BS - I've seen and raced against big bikes at the track. I was well ahead of a 10 second 124 until he finally beat me down around maybe the 1000 foot mark. Why? Because I launched good and he was spinning badly. Lost to a second 124, but in a much closer race. He ran a low 11 to my mid 11. He launched better, but I still pulled him pretty hard until he hooked up.
Also saw a 131 at the track but didn't get to run him. He was running 11.3 and it was all he could do to keep it straight and from spinning. He was happy as can be with that and I didn't have the heart to tell him I was running 11.6 on my 98". Now, three tenths is a lot at the track - but the difference in $$ and motor is even greater. One gets into seriously diminishing returns the bigger one goes - IMO.
Now, had any of those guys been on the street instead of a prepped track I'd probably have gotten them in an 1/8th / stoplight-to-stoplight just because it is even harder to hook on the street.
So... I might just hold the line at 107. I like the twisties, run at the track and generally enjoy myself. A 107 is a well-balanced package that produces good power and gives good service. Very appealing. Power is addictive and it ain't a done deal in my mind, but... My scoot is a lot of fun as it is and I'd be regretting it if I bumped it too much and it wasn't as much fun.
I'll add an anecdote - last summer I was in the twisties around Eureka Springs and done for the day, heading back to the motel. I was leaned over in a normal 90 degree-ish turn and wasn't going through the gears hard, but when I shifted - the rear wheel skipped out what felt like 6" or so. I was surprised, but kept going. The roads were bone dry and all I think it could have been was a little sand combined with the additional TQ and being leaned over. Still... it made me think again about this very issue and what-if... What if I had more power or was really into it when I hit that patch. Probably would have hung the rear WAY out there and who knows.
If you go big, I strongly recommend you upgrade your shocks, forks and brakes for starters. I've done all that and will be adding truetracks as well. If you're still considering, I'd look at the new S&S 106 package. Seeing guys getting real nice results with them and in fact, think Hillside - a sponsor here IIRC, was the builder.
OTOH, I'm facing the same decision but looking at the 107/117/120/124 built on my stock cases.
The way I see it is all-bore 107 done right will get me 120+ and 120+. It will be civilized around town and go like stink when I whack it. I do a little dragging and would think a 107 and a few tweaks here and there should get me very low 11s and ideally high 10s in the 1/4.
The 117 would substitue a 4 3/8 crank for my 4" and the 124 would bump that to 4 5/8. I'd expect around 130+/130+ or 140+/140+ respectively. Now, the problem is that when you get up there around the ragged TQ/ HP edge, stuff starts breaking. There are additional suspension upgrades I'd want to do, maybe add a 6 spd and beef up the tranny regardless. Add chain drive, maybe a larger rear tire. Even after all that - the reality is the dyna chassis cannot handle all the power.
IMHO, 120+ and 120+ is about all these chassis can handle riding like I ride and one has to be real careful rolling on power in anything but a straight line. I'll say it again - a big, high torque/HP engine requires constant focus on the street. Even at the track, the big-inch guys struggle to hook. It's an issue and more than one member here and elsewhere has said they wished they'd stayed smaller. A couple on another forum in fact have stepped down in size after going real big.
...and before anyone calls BS - I've seen and raced against big bikes at the track. I was well ahead of a 10 second 124 until he finally beat me down around maybe the 1000 foot mark. Why? Because I launched good and he was spinning badly. Lost to a second 124, but in a much closer race. He ran a low 11 to my mid 11. He launched better, but I still pulled him pretty hard until he hooked up.
Also saw a 131 at the track but didn't get to run him. He was running 11.3 and it was all he could do to keep it straight and from spinning. He was happy as can be with that and I didn't have the heart to tell him I was running 11.6 on my 98". Now, three tenths is a lot at the track - but the difference in $$ and motor is even greater. One gets into seriously diminishing returns the bigger one goes - IMO.
Now, had any of those guys been on the street instead of a prepped track I'd probably have gotten them in an 1/8th / stoplight-to-stoplight just because it is even harder to hook on the street.
So... I might just hold the line at 107. I like the twisties, run at the track and generally enjoy myself. A 107 is a well-balanced package that produces good power and gives good service. Very appealing. Power is addictive and it ain't a done deal in my mind, but... My scoot is a lot of fun as it is and I'd be regretting it if I bumped it too much and it wasn't as much fun.
I'll add an anecdote - last summer I was in the twisties around Eureka Springs and done for the day, heading back to the motel. I was leaned over in a normal 90 degree-ish turn and wasn't going through the gears hard, but when I shifted - the rear wheel skipped out what felt like 6" or so. I was surprised, but kept going. The roads were bone dry and all I think it could have been was a little sand combined with the additional TQ and being leaned over. Still... it made me think again about this very issue and what-if... What if I had more power or was really into it when I hit that patch. Probably would have hung the rear WAY out there and who knows.
If you go big, I strongly recommend you upgrade your shocks, forks and brakes for starters. I've done all that and will be adding truetracks as well. If you're still considering, I'd look at the new S&S 106 package. Seeing guys getting real nice results with them and in fact, think Hillside - a sponsor here IIRC, was the builder.
#3
12-09-2009 | 06:41 PM
Road Master
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 850
Likes: 5
From: Mitchellville, Ia.
#4
12-09-2009 | 06:54 PM
Club Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 45,429
Likes: 2,872
From: Bedford UK
You want us to spend your money? Wow!
I'm an S&S man myself, nothing less will do. So put an S&S 124 on your list of possibles. Member kingkingking has one, if you want to track him down. But my serious advice is find an engine builder, such as those who are HDF sponsors, and speak to them in person. They will talk you through the various options, costs and benefits, which will be more helpful to you than asking us.
I'm an S&S man myself, nothing less will do. So put an S&S 124 on your list of possibles. Member kingkingking has one, if you want to track him down. But my serious advice is find an engine builder, such as those who are HDF sponsors, and speak to them in person. They will talk you through the various options, costs and benefits, which will be more helpful to you than asking us.
#5
12-09-2009 | 08:53 PM
I'm about to pull the trigger on an engine upgrade. I got a quote from my local dealership for $3,500 OTD price for a 103 Screaming Eagle upgrade which includes V&H Pro Pipe 2 into 1 Chrome. High Flow SE High Flow AC. Super Tuner SE 251 or SE 259 cams Pistons, boring, Head work Gaskets/seals/fluids, Install/Dyno.
Now the question: is the above a good deal and is it a noticeable change over my stock '09 FXDC? I'm not a drag racer but like to out accelerate traffic.
Now here's where my ego kicks in. For $7,300 OTD and trading my stock engine in with 6K miles, I can have a Jim's high performance 120 cu engine installed. Or possibly go all out for another $800 more and have the Jim's 130 engine installed.
Common sense says stay with the 103 mods, ego asks are the Jims 120 and 130 engine civilized for in town local riding and distance reliability?
I'm looking for a good balance between torque and horse power, torque being more important to me at lower rpm's.
I appreciate your feed back.
Now the question: is the above a good deal and is it a noticeable change over my stock '09 FXDC? I'm not a drag racer but like to out accelerate traffic.
Now here's where my ego kicks in. For $7,300 OTD and trading my stock engine in with 6K miles, I can have a Jim's high performance 120 cu engine installed. Or possibly go all out for another $800 more and have the Jim's 130 engine installed.
Common sense says stay with the 103 mods, ego asks are the Jims 120 and 130 engine civilized for in town local riding and distance reliability?
I'm looking for a good balance between torque and horse power, torque being more important to me at lower rpm's.
I appreciate your feed back.
Last edited by Shovelhead Bob; 12-14-2009 at 09:13 PM. Reason: Selling product in a Tech Thread
#7
12-09-2009 | 11:28 PM
Thread Starter
|
Road Warrior
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,465
Likes: 60
From: Port St. Lucie, FL
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#8
12-10-2009 | 07:23 AM
Sponsor
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,085
Likes: 824
A 117" or going to a 124", both using Axtell 4 1/8" cylinder kits, and your cylinder head castings, to mantain that "sleeper" look, is only about $400.00 difference. We build a TON of those here. Either one of those potent engines will have your tire off the ground, with fantastic reliability, as fellow forum member BAGGERDSM can attest to. MUCH more power than the dealer can offer. 130 hp and 135 ft/lbs well within reach with a 117". Hovering at 140 hp and 150 ft/lbs with a 124". A 107" drop-on kit, using our private label Wiesco pistons, has recently shown 120/120(again, as that has been witnessed on several dyno's, prior, and more with EFI) with our Stage IV Heads/Wood 9B/45 MIk/Pro-Pipe/DTT, with 3.37 gearing,(some power is being scrubbed off with that) at Dales Bike Shop, in Beaumont, Texas. Happy to discuss this with you!!
Scott
Scott
Last edited by Hillsidecycle.com; 12-10-2009 at 09:14 AM.
