I (think) I understand the benifits of having a closed loop system over an open loop system. As an owner of an
"05 FLHT what I would like to know is how difficult would it be to switch to a closed loop system? I would rather not have O2 sensor bungs installed into a system. I would rather buy a true dual system for my bike that have the bungs (2 of them) in it when I by it. Who out there makes such systems? Samson/Caliber comes to mind, but are there others?

The next question is, who makes a system that "closes the loop" once I have a place to put the O2 sensors? Once again, ThunderMax comes to mind, who else out there has systems to close the loop? Unless I am reading things wrong, most of the systems I see are for data gathering and the user utilizes the data to adjust the fuel controller. Is his about right or am I missing some systems out there?

Lastly, don't most, if not all, of the systems control fuel alone and ignore the timing? I know that timing adjustment will just add to the complexity of tha whole package, but wouldn't it be of great help to make such adjustments along the way? What is out there to do this and are any of them integrated into the fuel control systems or are they stand alone?

My thoughts are to start out with a system that is a top end stage one that will allow plenty of growth down the road (ie. bigger bore, cams, head work) while spending next riding season learning the ins and outs of the system and all there is to gain from the high level of control the system affords.

Any educated thoughts? Well, other than that I am over thinking, and maybe under researching, the whole process.

 

I know the E-H's from '99 -2000 were closed loop. weird...it took about 50 miles of riding but the engine adjusted to exhaust and changes all by itself. Unfortunately, as pretty as they were and the good points about them, they were flawed from the start. Don't know where the Hanlon's got the stufffor their engines. I do know alot of the transmission parts were used also by Yamaha. Thats all my "knowledge?!"

 

You are not overthinking this at all. Most manufacturers have pipes set up with the O2 sensors on both the front and rear pipes. Give them a call as to fitment.

The Daytona Twin Tech TCFI II and the T-Max Autotune both are complete sytems that use the O2 sensors in closed loop mode and can be adjusted in many ways for fuel delivery and timing. The SERT from HD can also be adjusted in this manner.

Do a search on this forum in the technical forums for DTT, SERT, and T-Max to learn more. Each of the system has pros and cons. I am running the DTT.

 

+1 on the DTT/Tmax/SERT comment. I was in the same situation as you are LazyLion. The forums here have a wealth of information on the 3 systems. Your best option really comes down to personal preference it seems, each one of the mentioned systems have their down sides, and some really amazing high sides to them. The DTT, Tmax, and SERT systems seem to have a "widerspread" user base on the forums, as well as on the local roads (at least out here). So with that you are getting loads of feedback from newer riders, stop light-stop light riders, and long haul riders who have tried/using one of the three systems. The thing to really seperate the three is how user-friendly the software/system is to you. If you plan to do a lot of your own tuning as you go with the bike, it might help to find somebody local to you who has these systems, or one of the 3, and ask them to kind of show you through a bit of it and see whats all involved. The easier the system is to you the more you will enjoy it and be able to tune it yourself, I personally wouldnt stray from any one of the 3 systems, though I prefered to go with a Tmax

 

bobnphredII, Dalton & HogGlider thanks for the responses. After I posted this I realized that the majority of the post I started about pipes ended up being about fuel control. I cross posted over there and should have made two separate posts.

 

Any feedback on the HQ Pro -Tuner?

 

The ThunderMax closed-loop system makes its own adjustments as you drive based on a canned map which is close to your bike's mods/no mods setup. I spoke with SuperTrapp, and although they offer 2-into-1 pipes with the bungs already installed, they would not fit my bike as they are made to fit the '07 FLH group only. I think once you have the bungs installed they won't bother you anymore, and the money you save over time in not having dyno tuning costs will more than pay for the T-Max closed-loop system.

 

Lazylion,

First off my vote is for ThunderMax.

Now the pipes. I put a set of Rinehart Ttrue Duals for an '07 on an '04. I had to modify the transmission mount for the rear pipe a little but no big deal. And I put '07 Thunderheader FL Long on an '04Ultra and an '05 Road Glide. Again a little mods on the transmission mounts. It can be done, find a good aftermarket shop and ask their advise.Most HD parts depts will look in the catalog and say "Duh, don't fit."