EVO All Evo Model Discussion

Detonation wierdness

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
  #1  
Old 04-07-2014, 08:36 PM
kermit_wisconsin's Avatar
kermit_wisconsin
kermit_wisconsin is offline
Advanced
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: burlington, wi
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Detonation wierdness

I bought this bike a couple of years ago. 23,000 miles on it and it was bone stock. Since I bought it it detonates, or something similar... usually when it is cold outside like under 45 F degrees.
I have a lot done to the motor now

Ported heads, 5 angle valve job, andrews 27 cam with 155lb crane springe, s&s lifters, rockers, pushrods, etc., .080 off stock deck height (.065 shaved, .015 under head gasket) with flat top, .010 over wiseco pistons, with balanced rods by DarkHorse, Whole bottom end was completely blueprinted and rebuilt by DarkHorse, cycle shack slip-ons with the baffles bent lower (more open pipe), arlen ness big sucker with 3" element, DynaTech 2ki ignition module still on dual fire, I believe, a hair over 10.5:1 compression (which doesn't seem right, thought it should be less) and the timing and carb tuned to fit the mods.

Keep in mind, this bike has done this since I bought it stock and as much as that engine has been modded and I figured it would go away. Plug chops show very nice burn, combustion chamber is very nice, not a lot of build-up on the pistons, valves resealed, and no leaks with the leak down. Manifold prted and polished and running a stock, rejetted and tuned carb (I believe in the cv carb, haha)... So with as much of a picture as I can paint of my engine, anybody under the opinion that maybe cooler plugs would help? And this happens as a muffled pop (a completely powerless stroke when rolling back on the throttle after decelerating... like to turn a corner) and the carb was filthy after 12,000 miles.
 
  #2  
Old 04-07-2014, 08:46 PM
johnjzjz's Avatar
johnjzjz
johnjzjz is offline
Seasoned HDF Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: la la land jerzey
Posts: 12,508
Received 4,854 Likes on 3,020 Posts
Default

Since I bought it it detonates

you did extensive shaving and compression increases with a short duration cam and the noize is still in it < i would expect the sound you now have would be detonation --

and what was making sound 2 years ago was different unless you used a decible meter to track the sounds -- johnjzjz
 
  #3  
Old 04-07-2014, 08:56 PM
kermit_wisconsin's Avatar
kermit_wisconsin
kermit_wisconsin is offline
Advanced
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: burlington, wi
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by johnjzjz
Since I bought it it detonates

you did extensive shaving and compression increases with a short duration cam and the noize is still in it < i would expect the sound you now have would be detonation --

and what was making sound 2 years ago was different unless you used a decible meter to track the sounds -- johnjzjz
Same noise, same place, same exact response from the throttle, and happens exactly like it always did. Just take my word for it... this has happened since the bike was stock.
 
  #4  
Old 04-07-2014, 08:56 PM
little5150's Avatar
little5150
little5150 is offline
Cruiser
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Detonation happen when the octane in the fuel is not high enough (because of high compression) or to much advance. Weight is a factor too, lighter bike can take more advance than a heavy bike. See if you can buy some race gas (110 octane), and see if it still does it. You might have to adjust your V.O.E.S switch. Check out the link below.

http://www.mklsportster.com/xlvoes.htm
 

Last edited by little5150; 04-07-2014 at 09:20 PM.
  #5  
Old 04-07-2014, 09:12 PM
kermit_wisconsin's Avatar
kermit_wisconsin
kermit_wisconsin is offline
Advanced
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: burlington, wi
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by little5150
Detonation happen when the octane in the fuel is not high enough (because of high compression) or to much advance. You might have to adjust your V.O.E.S switch. Check out the link below.

http://www.mklsportster.com/xlvoes.htm
Hey thanks Little... This is what I was looking for, ok so lower heat plugs are out... dumb idea.
I just had the bore, pistons and bottom end done this winter. I am wondering if maybe it's just the gas from sitting for months. I noticed it goes away as the weather warms... maybe that has something to do with running old gas out of the bike and, at the same time, gas stations going to their warm weather formulation. But I run 93 octane... should I try a booster?
I have a short duration cam with very high flow intake (heads ported specifically for this). The bike, the power, etc are exactly what I was going for. I can stand it up... there's no question about the power. It's just that damn detonation that has pestered me from day 1. But I guess I can experament with fuel and mixtures
 
  #6  
Old 04-07-2014, 09:41 PM
little5150's Avatar
little5150
little5150 is offline
Cruiser
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by kermit_wisconsin
Hey thanks Little... This is what I was looking for, ok so lower heat plugs are out... dumb idea.
I just had the bore, pistons and bottom end done this winter. I am wondering if maybe it's just the gas from sitting for months. I noticed it goes away as the weather warms... maybe that has something to do with running old gas out of the bike and, at the same time, gas stations going to their warm weather formulation. But I run 93 octane... should I try a booster?
I have a short duration cam with very high flow intake (heads ported specifically for this). The bike, the power, etc are exactly what I was going for. I can stand it up... there's no question about the power. It's just that damn detonation that has pestered me from day 1. But I guess I can experament with fuel and mixtures

The gas additive don't work. You might have to call a auto race shop to find out where you can buy 100+ plus octane gas. Here in Minnesota we have some station that sell 110 octane gas. But you just want to run it to see if that's the problem. Because it about $7 a gallon. Like I said check your V.O.E.S switch adjustment and check out that link. When I built my bike I have about 10 1/2 to 1 compression and I was have detonation problems, I adjusted my V.O.E.S and that help out alot. But my bike is vary sensitive to the gas I put in it. I run premium (93 octane) and that work OK.
 

Last edited by little5150; 04-07-2014 at 09:46 PM.
  #7  
Old 04-07-2014, 10:17 PM
kermit_wisconsin's Avatar
kermit_wisconsin
kermit_wisconsin is offline
Advanced
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: burlington, wi
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by little5150
The gas additive don't work. You might have to call a auto race shop to find out where you can buy 100+ plus octane gas. Here in Minnesota we have some station that sell 110 octane gas. But you just want to run it to see if that's the problem. Because it about $7 a gallon. Like I said check your V.O.E.S switch adjustment and check out that link. When I built my bike I have about 10 1/2 to 1 compression and I was have detonation problems, I adjusted my V.O.E.S and that help out alot. But my bike is vary sensitive to the gas I put in it. I run premium (93 octane) and that work OK.
Yep, I read the link and then did a little more research. My bike was tuned on a dyno but that doesn't mean the voes was adjusted. The timing and jetting were all done and my chart is awesome and my numbers are way beyond what I hoped for. But from what I read, the voes is done, as you said, and after the bike is already tuned. That is what I am understanding anyway. Thanks, brother.
 
  #8  
Old 04-07-2014, 10:17 PM
aces&8s's Avatar
aces&8s
aces&8s is offline
Ultimate HDF Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: almost there
Posts: 6,567
Received 576 Likes on 382 Posts
Default

Which retard setting are you on the Dyna 2ki ? With that much CR you should be 3-4 curve and maybe add 6" VOES. Dyna 2k ignition can be tweaked just for your bikes set up with a wire dn load.
 

Last edited by aces&8s; 04-07-2014 at 10:20 PM.
  #9  
Old 04-08-2014, 06:30 AM
kermit_wisconsin's Avatar
kermit_wisconsin
kermit_wisconsin is offline
Advanced
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: burlington, wi
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by aces&8s
Which retard setting are you on the Dyna 2ki ? With that much CR you should be 3-4 curve and maybe add 6" VOES. Dyna 2k ignition can be tweaked just for your bikes set up with a wire dn load.
retarded 3 degrees
 
  #10  
Old 04-08-2014, 11:40 AM
little5150's Avatar
little5150
little5150 is offline
Cruiser
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

I found another article on the V.O.E.S. switch. It work like a switch to turn your advance on. The higher the inches of mercury the more it delays it to advance time timing, so you need to find out where your V.O.E.S. switch is set, and then set it higher in inches of mercury.
 

Last edited by little5150; 04-08-2014 at 11:47 AM.


Quick Reply: Detonation wierdness



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:21 AM.