If you are using 1" timeserts and the blind hole is 1.400" wil the studs go in deep enough to torque down properly??????
John

 

I'm an engineer and started life at Rolls-Royce, on aircraft engine manufacture. Pretty well every thread in an alloy casing, on Merlins, Griffons, their license-built Continentals and all gas turbines, had a helicoil installed during manufacture. Hence my remark!

In the bike world they tend to be seen as repairs, which is not what they were originally intended for. There is every likelyhood each of your Contis also has a great many of them!

 

My understanding is that the blind hole is 1.440" but the threads are 1" of actual threads on the studs and in the block. The recommended part number from Timesert is the 1" thread insert for 1.250" depth.

I'd welcome any other thoughts on this, however. I'm only repeating what I've been told by S&S and Timesert.

 

That's interesting, and I didn't know it. I'll have to try and look more closely. Thanks for the feedback.

I don't look at helicoils as just repair parts in general - however also consider that the casings, etc on aircraft manufacturing are manufactured to much higher spec and standard than what HD type bikes get. Way more oversight and QC. It would be my guess that in terms of things like alloy construction, width and depth, etc, as well as even the composition and design of the actual helicoils, there is likely significant difference between those and what we'd use as repairs. There is certainly differences in prices - just as there is for example in the price of a spark plug in my bike or one of my cars, and those that go in my aircraft. I sure with aviation plugs were only a few dollars each!

 

Well, it looks as though this is an issue that just won't die easily. Got a call back from Reggie Jr at R&R. Long story. Bike is currently at a Bourget shop, which has experience with R&R motors. They recently had a (pretty new) Bourget with an S&S case which the cylinder studs pulled (sound familiar, S&S?). They sent it to Bourget, who installed Timeserts - however they ALSO "pinned" the Timeserts by drilling horizontally through the block and inserting a "set pin" to contact the Timesert, apparently increasing the strength. They claimed they've had Timeserts not hold in S&S blocks in particular. And that since they started doing this, they have not had a failure. I'm now reconsidering my options.

Bourget will do the work relatively inexpensively, but it involves pulling the bottom end and shipping it to Bourget, having them do the work, shipping it back, reassembly. Or, I can just do the Timeserts themselves. Sending it to Bourget will be more expensive, plus the shipping, and will take at least a month best case once you include shipping from PA to AZ and back.

I have to say that I have less trust in S&S every single day that goes by. I'm also calling Sputhe engineering to inquire as to Fatvo blocks.

 

Do yourself a favor and get your Fatvo from Ultima. Much cheaper and they have an assembled short block. PM me for more info.
John

 

Talked to Sputhe. Good conversation, but probably not the direction I'll go since I have almost nothing that would go in it. So, whether it's from Sputhe or Ultima, the Fatvo probably just doesn't provide the advantage it does for others. I may be able to use my stroker crank, but would have to replace the pinion. Matter of fact, about the only things I could use would be the crank and the oil pump. I do have a spare 80" motor but it's a '92 and has some miles on it. Don't think I'd be too crazy about putting that crank in a new motor.

Still working on a decision. Shop where the bike is will call me back tomorrow, and I'll then probably call Bourget directly to get more details about what they suggest.

 

Couple of classic engines, I thought they were finished in the mid 50s, except for the B of B flight. I would give alot for an hour in a MKII Spit, what a sound they make..

Ds

 

Had some interactions with Reggie Jr at R&R, Corey at Extreme, Timesert, and Bourget. What Bourget does here is to install the serts, and then (under the depth of the cylinder stud) drill through the block and insert, and put a pin horitonally through the case and insert. They're willing to do that on other bikes, at a cost of around $420, which includes tearing the bottom end apart, doing the work, assembly of the bottom end including new bearings and seals. I like the idea, however there are a couple problems. First, they're quoting 2 1/2 months turnaround - AFTER they get the bottom end. This is due to backlog of work, and Sturgis. That means I lose the bike until next spring for all practical purposes. Then, there is also two directions of shipping to add to that cost. And, the entire motor needs to come out rather than doing the inserts with just the top end pulled.

Checked with Timesert to determine what my NEXT option would be if I just installed the serts and they ended up pulling. Those options would be: New cases, Tig weld and redrill existing cases, or the "big serts" from Timesert. In other words, I don't think I'd be any worse off than I am now.

So, I'm going to pass on sending the bottom end to Bourget and install the Timeserts and give it a try. Thanks again to S&S for all the help (sarcasm intended). Serious thanks to you guys here.

 

I'm sure Bourget has their reasons, but I'm having trouble understanding the purpose to the "pinning" they say is required.. The inserts will have much more surface area to thread into and when loctited in, I cant see them moving anywhere.. Its not like you're building a huge race motor with obscene compression.. Like you mention, you have nothing to lose by doing the work yourself, with the enigne in the bike. Just make sure to take your time and keep things square and clean. Worst case, it will need to be repaired with some welding and then the pinning, but I highly doubt it... On a side note, I dont see why you couldnt cross drill and add a set screw to the side of the insert if you felt it necessary, although I wouldnt bother..