Clutch adjustment question
#11
The thought that adjusting your clutch when it is hot means you will have many shifting issues is quite bizarre, and completely untrue.
It makes zero difference(in actual performance), and actually ensures that the dynamics that have to be allowed for when adjusting cold are no longer in play, as expansion has already occurred.
It makes zero difference(in actual performance), and actually ensures that the dynamics that have to be allowed for when adjusting cold are no longer in play, as expansion has already occurred.
Now, I never compared the difference in performance between adjusting the clutch when hot or cold, I just took it for granted all these years that the manual was correct. On the other side, we all know how many times the MoCo has told us something that wasn't really true. . .
#12
I will deal with it in the order presented.
The HD manual only covers one scenario. Therefore, they have to stipulate conditions to adhere to. They are not interested in broad explanations of theory that, for all they know, would never be understood by the majority who would be reading them. So they keep it simple.
The clearance at the adjuster screw DECREASES, not increases, as temperature rises.
But not by much. The thought that the spec given by HD is only just enough to avoid slippage when hot is ridiculous. It is extremely generous. It is more concerned with wear over time than heat expansion.
Think carefully.
If the freeplay is enough to avoid slippage when set cold(meaning there is expansion and reduction of clearance to come), then in what sense would applying that same amount of freeplay when hot(meaning no additional expansion, as it has already all occurred)possibly support any theory that clutch slippage due to lack of clearance is about to occur?
A more likely theory is that clutch pack expansion exceeds pushrod and associated component expansion, and that slippage when cold might be possible. But again, all too small, and not relevant.
Don't forget to make sure that the centre screw is tight, but has no tension. Very important!
The HD manual only covers one scenario. Therefore, they have to stipulate conditions to adhere to. They are not interested in broad explanations of theory that, for all they know, would never be understood by the majority who would be reading them. So they keep it simple.
The clearance at the adjuster screw DECREASES, not increases, as temperature rises.
But not by much. The thought that the spec given by HD is only just enough to avoid slippage when hot is ridiculous. It is extremely generous. It is more concerned with wear over time than heat expansion.
Think carefully.
If the freeplay is enough to avoid slippage when set cold(meaning there is expansion and reduction of clearance to come), then in what sense would applying that same amount of freeplay when hot(meaning no additional expansion, as it has already all occurred)possibly support any theory that clutch slippage due to lack of clearance is about to occur?
A more likely theory is that clutch pack expansion exceeds pushrod and associated component expansion, and that slippage when cold might be possible. But again, all too small, and not relevant.
Don't forget to make sure that the centre screw is tight, but has no tension. Very important!
#13
IG, there's a reason we bought the manual and usually a reason for a specific writeup for a particular procedure. Since I have the manual, I might as well follow directions although in this instance I understand what you are saying and agree with your concepts.
But on this line, I think the Harley manual is one of the worst auto type manuals around. I purchase the dealer service manual for every vehicle/boat/bike I own and comparatively the MoCo manuals are terrible. They leave out all kinds of steps in procedures, leave out exploded diagrams that would really help and just totally ignore some things.
Since I have my primary apart right now, I had just noticed one in particular. I saw a post a while back about someone trying to remove their primary chain and stating that the nut holding the clutch pack on was right handed instead of left handed as the manual stated. Obviously, everyone tried to correct the op but then he realized that he was loosening the jam nut on the adjuster. That post popped back into my head when I was reviewing the steps for removing the primary casing and in particular, removal of the clutch pack. Step 2 says remove the retaining ring and step 3 says remove the mainshaft nut. Nowhere does it state to remove the clutch adjuster screw, jamnut and the plate behind it to get access to the mainshaft nut and that's obviously where the op got messed up.
It seems like the manual is written as a reminder for shop mechanics who work on this stuff every day to give a guideline here or there along with some torque specs and a list of expensive tools they need to have on hand. It does not seem like it was intended as an instructional manual for someone performing a specific procedure for the first time and unfortunately that's what most of us bought the manual for.
But on this line, I think the Harley manual is one of the worst auto type manuals around. I purchase the dealer service manual for every vehicle/boat/bike I own and comparatively the MoCo manuals are terrible. They leave out all kinds of steps in procedures, leave out exploded diagrams that would really help and just totally ignore some things.
Since I have my primary apart right now, I had just noticed one in particular. I saw a post a while back about someone trying to remove their primary chain and stating that the nut holding the clutch pack on was right handed instead of left handed as the manual stated. Obviously, everyone tried to correct the op but then he realized that he was loosening the jam nut on the adjuster. That post popped back into my head when I was reviewing the steps for removing the primary casing and in particular, removal of the clutch pack. Step 2 says remove the retaining ring and step 3 says remove the mainshaft nut. Nowhere does it state to remove the clutch adjuster screw, jamnut and the plate behind it to get access to the mainshaft nut and that's obviously where the op got messed up.
It seems like the manual is written as a reminder for shop mechanics who work on this stuff every day to give a guideline here or there along with some torque specs and a list of expensive tools they need to have on hand. It does not seem like it was intended as an instructional manual for someone performing a specific procedure for the first time and unfortunately that's what most of us bought the manual for.
#14
IG, there's a reason we bought the manual and usually a reason for a specific writeup for a particular procedure. Since I have the manual, I might as well follow directions although in this instance I understand what you are saying and agree with your concepts.
But on this line, I think the Harley manual is one of the worst auto type manuals around. I purchase the dealer service manual for every vehicle/boat/bike I own and comparatively the MoCo manuals are terrible. They leave out all kinds of steps in procedures, leave out exploded diagrams that would really help and just totally ignore some things.
Since I have my primary apart right now, I had just noticed one in particular. I saw a post a while back about someone trying to remove their primary chain and stating that the nut holding the clutch pack on was right handed instead of left handed as the manual stated. Obviously, everyone tried to correct the op but then he realized that he was loosening the jam nut on the adjuster. That post popped back into my head when I was reviewing the steps for removing the primary casing and in particular, removal of the clutch pack. Step 2 says remove the retaining ring and step 3 says remove the mainshaft nut. Nowhere does it state to remove the clutch adjuster screw, jamnut and the plate behind it to get access to the mainshaft nut and that's obviously where the op got messed up.
It seems like the manual is written as a reminder for shop mechanics who work on this stuff every day to give a guideline here or there along with some torque specs and a list of expensive tools they need to have on hand. It does not seem like it was intended as an instructional manual for someone performing a specific procedure for the first time and unfortunately that's what most of us bought the manual for.
But on this line, I think the Harley manual is one of the worst auto type manuals around. I purchase the dealer service manual for every vehicle/boat/bike I own and comparatively the MoCo manuals are terrible. They leave out all kinds of steps in procedures, leave out exploded diagrams that would really help and just totally ignore some things.
Since I have my primary apart right now, I had just noticed one in particular. I saw a post a while back about someone trying to remove their primary chain and stating that the nut holding the clutch pack on was right handed instead of left handed as the manual stated. Obviously, everyone tried to correct the op but then he realized that he was loosening the jam nut on the adjuster. That post popped back into my head when I was reviewing the steps for removing the primary casing and in particular, removal of the clutch pack. Step 2 says remove the retaining ring and step 3 says remove the mainshaft nut. Nowhere does it state to remove the clutch adjuster screw, jamnut and the plate behind it to get access to the mainshaft nut and that's obviously where the op got messed up.
It seems like the manual is written as a reminder for shop mechanics who work on this stuff every day to give a guideline here or there along with some torque specs and a list of expensive tools they need to have on hand. It does not seem like it was intended as an instructional manual for someone performing a specific procedure for the first time and unfortunately that's what most of us bought the manual for.
you need to keep to the manual.
The parts book can also be very helpful. It basically has an exploded view of everything, though some knowledge is helpful in some cases(errors, for example).
Any manual is going to be easier to understand with a little experience.
It is not really an "idiots guide to wrenching" as such, and I think you are right in asserting that is intentional. But it is still very helpful, and the genuine one is the best by far in my view.
My point in the clutch adj case is not that you should ignore the manual, but rather that asserting(as was done) that performing the adj hot would cause major issues is totally wrong. You really don't need the manual to realise that, merely common sense.
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icebite1
Tri Glide, RG3 & Freewheeler Models
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07-15-2016 06:53 PM
1989, 2010, adjustment, adjustmentadjustment, adjustmeny, bike, clutch, cold, custom, davidson, evo, fxdwg, harley, motor, needing, shovelhead, softail