Poor Bertha... stranded with electrical problems...
#1
06-13-2010, 07:12 PM
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: North Atlanta Area, GA
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Poor Bertha... stranded with electrical problems...
Hey guys... Well, Bertha quit on me for the first time today, 40 miles from home. She just stopped dead sitting at a stoplight, and then wouldn't crank at all. I wonder what I did to **** her off? 
I'm sure glad I renewed my H.O.G. membership last month! The nearest dealer to where I was stranded was 34 miles away, and my house was only 40 miles away... so I just had them tow her home instead of to a dealer. Only cost me $20 in excess mileage charge over what H.O.G. paid. So, I've already recouped this year's H.O.G. dues! But the ride home in a tow truck with Bertha strapped down on the back was pretty embarrassing... especially when I went through my neighborhood, and lots of people were outside, of course...
Anyway, the battery is about two years old (H-D), starter is 18 months old (Ultima 1.4 KW), and the regulator and stator are probably original. She's on the battery tender now. Will take awhile to change the battery, and tomorrow evening when I get home from work I'll crank her and see if she turns over and starts. I'm sure she will... I cranked her a bit ago, and there was just enough juice in the battery to turn the starter over about a turn and a half.
I guess she might need a new battery, but the one in her is H-D, not aftermarket, and is only 2 years old. What do you guys think? How long do H-D batteries last in practice? Seems like they should last longer than two years!
If it's not the battery, that leaves me with the stator and/or regulator on the list of suspects. They are likely both original - meaning 15 years old - and probably should be replaced anyway. I thought about just buying new ones and installing them - but I'd like to know if either one is the actual culprit before I do. I don't have a voltmeter/ohmmeter/ammeter, so I'll have to go buy one tomorrow. So depending on the results of the regulator and stator tests, I may be going into the primary to replace the stator. Ugggh! I sure hope it's just the regulator...
Any words of advice? I'm reading the service manual about doing the regulator continuity and alternator amperage tests now.
I'm sure glad I renewed my H.O.G. membership last month! The nearest dealer to where I was stranded was 34 miles away, and my house was only 40 miles away... so I just had them tow her home instead of to a dealer. Only cost me $20 in excess mileage charge over what H.O.G. paid. So, I've already recouped this year's H.O.G. dues! But the ride home in a tow truck with Bertha strapped down on the back was pretty embarrassing... especially when I went through my neighborhood, and lots of people were outside, of course...
Anyway, the battery is about two years old (H-D), starter is 18 months old (Ultima 1.4 KW), and the regulator and stator are probably original. She's on the battery tender now. Will take awhile to change the battery, and tomorrow evening when I get home from work I'll crank her and see if she turns over and starts. I'm sure she will... I cranked her a bit ago, and there was just enough juice in the battery to turn the starter over about a turn and a half.
I guess she might need a new battery, but the one in her is H-D, not aftermarket, and is only 2 years old. What do you guys think? How long do H-D batteries last in practice? Seems like they should last longer than two years!
If it's not the battery, that leaves me with the stator and/or regulator on the list of suspects. They are likely both original - meaning 15 years old - and probably should be replaced anyway. I thought about just buying new ones and installing them - but I'd like to know if either one is the actual culprit before I do. I don't have a voltmeter/ohmmeter/ammeter, so I'll have to go buy one tomorrow. So depending on the results of the regulator and stator tests, I may be going into the primary to replace the stator. Ugggh! I sure hope it's just the regulator...
Any words of advice? I'm reading the service manual about doing the regulator continuity and alternator amperage tests now.
#2
06-13-2010, 07:46 PM
HDF Community Team
Just a guess Hawg, but good possibility the charging system died or was failing
intermittently and ran the battery down while you were riding. The battery may "live" but that's a 50/50... let it charge on low overnight and if you can, leave the stator/reg checks for later when the battery is full up.
intermittently and ran the battery down while you were riding. The battery may "live" but that's a 50/50... let it charge on low overnight and if you can, leave the stator/reg checks for later when the battery is full up.
#4
06-13-2010, 08:10 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
Dr.Hess' How To Diagnose Your Charging System
Buy about a $10-20 digital multi meter. Fully charge the battery (overnight on a 1 Amp charger).
Scale on DC Volts, around 20V max voltage scale. Nominal readings are given in brackets. Check voltage across battery terminals (12.8). Turn bike on. Check voltage (less than previous, ~12.0+, depending on headlight, accessories). Start bike and let idle. Check voltage (could be 12.0 to 15). Rev to about 2500. Check voltage (should be more than observed with bike on but motor not running, and more than with bike off. Ideally between 13 and 15.) Turn high beam on. Should be about the same, give or take a little. If the voltage is over 15 or 15.5-ish with a headlight on, I'd consider replacing the regulator and/or checking all grounds (battery to frame, regulator to frame in particular). If the battery voltage with the headlight on, bike not running is less than around 11.5-ish, I’d replace the battery. If it’s 10, it’s past it’s prime.
If you pass the above tests, your system is most likely fine, including the regulator and stator. If you don't pass, then:
Bike off. Meter set on Ohms, medium-ish scale, like 20K or 200K Ohms max scale, depending on your meter. Pull stator plug. Ground the meter black lead to a good chassis ground, like a bolt or even the battery negative. With the red lead, touch a different part of the bike, like the engine case at an unpainted part or another bolt. Meter should read low ohms, like 0. If it doesn’t, you didn’t ground the black lead. With the red lead, touch each contact on the motor side (stator) of the plug (the part stuck in the case). Depending on if your case has a male or female plug, if you can't see the metal part/pin of the plug, you can put a paper clip in the hole and touch the paperclip with your meter red. Meter reading should be infinity on all pins. If it isn't, your stator is shorted to the case, replace.
The following is for single phase systems. I don't have a multi-phase and haven't had to diagnose anyone elses, so I haven't dug into those systems.
Set meter to lowest ohm scale, like 200 Ohms, typically. (Note: Not 200K ohms). Check resistance between the two stator plug pins. Should be fairly low. My Book says 0.2-0.4 ohms. The spec is in your shop manual. If it is infinity, stator is blown open. If it is 0, stator is shorted to itself.
Set meter to AC Volts, 100V scale. Attach each meter lead to a stator pin. You may need to rig up some type of temporary plug. It is important that nothing can short to ground or to each other accidentally, or you will blow the stator if it wasn't blown before. An old plug off of your last regulator is a good way to do it, but, get creative and be careful. I can do it holidng the leads on the pins once the bike is running, but I don't like to. Start bike. Voltage should vary with engine speed. Specs are in your shop manual, but 35V at a couple thousand RPM is probably about right. My book says 19-26 V / 1K RPM.
If you passed that stator test and failed the first test, your regulator is shot. If you failed any part of the stator test, replace both regulator and stator.
Buy about a $10-20 digital multi meter. Fully charge the battery (overnight on a 1 Amp charger).
Scale on DC Volts, around 20V max voltage scale. Nominal readings are given in brackets. Check voltage across battery terminals (12.8). Turn bike on. Check voltage (less than previous, ~12.0+, depending on headlight, accessories). Start bike and let idle. Check voltage (could be 12.0 to 15). Rev to about 2500. Check voltage (should be more than observed with bike on but motor not running, and more than with bike off. Ideally between 13 and 15.) Turn high beam on. Should be about the same, give or take a little. If the voltage is over 15 or 15.5-ish with a headlight on, I'd consider replacing the regulator and/or checking all grounds (battery to frame, regulator to frame in particular). If the battery voltage with the headlight on, bike not running is less than around 11.5-ish, I’d replace the battery. If it’s 10, it’s past it’s prime.
If you pass the above tests, your system is most likely fine, including the regulator and stator. If you don't pass, then:
Bike off. Meter set on Ohms, medium-ish scale, like 20K or 200K Ohms max scale, depending on your meter. Pull stator plug. Ground the meter black lead to a good chassis ground, like a bolt or even the battery negative. With the red lead, touch a different part of the bike, like the engine case at an unpainted part or another bolt. Meter should read low ohms, like 0. If it doesn’t, you didn’t ground the black lead. With the red lead, touch each contact on the motor side (stator) of the plug (the part stuck in the case). Depending on if your case has a male or female plug, if you can't see the metal part/pin of the plug, you can put a paper clip in the hole and touch the paperclip with your meter red. Meter reading should be infinity on all pins. If it isn't, your stator is shorted to the case, replace.
The following is for single phase systems. I don't have a multi-phase and haven't had to diagnose anyone elses, so I haven't dug into those systems.
Set meter to lowest ohm scale, like 200 Ohms, typically. (Note: Not 200K ohms). Check resistance between the two stator plug pins. Should be fairly low. My Book says 0.2-0.4 ohms. The spec is in your shop manual. If it is infinity, stator is blown open. If it is 0, stator is shorted to itself.
Set meter to AC Volts, 100V scale. Attach each meter lead to a stator pin. You may need to rig up some type of temporary plug. It is important that nothing can short to ground or to each other accidentally, or you will blow the stator if it wasn't blown before. An old plug off of your last regulator is a good way to do it, but, get creative and be careful. I can do it holidng the leads on the pins once the bike is running, but I don't like to. Start bike. Voltage should vary with engine speed. Specs are in your shop manual, but 35V at a couple thousand RPM is probably about right. My book says 19-26 V / 1K RPM.
If you passed that stator test and failed the first test, your regulator is shot. If you failed any part of the stator test, replace both regulator and stator.
#5
06-13-2010, 08:46 PM
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: North Atlanta Area, GA
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Just a guess Hawg, but good possibility the charging system died or was failing
intermittently and ran the battery down while you were riding. The battery may "live" but that's a 50/50... let it charge on low overnight and if you can, leave the stator/reg checks for later when the battery is full up.
intermittently and ran the battery down while you were riding. The battery may "live" but that's a 50/50... let it charge on low overnight and if you can, leave the stator/reg checks for later when the battery is full up.
Since this has never happened before (although Bertha does have several running lights, etc.), I'm suspecting the stator first, but it could also be the regulator.
I'll do all the shop manual tests and track this thing down. I really don't want to go into the primary to replace the stator. If I have to go that far, I might as well go ahead pull the inner primary so I can replace all the leaking seals, too. That will save me 10 cents per month on primary fluid, and I'll have a cleaner garage floor, too!
#6
06-13-2010, 08:48 PM
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: North Atlanta Area, GA
Posts: 3,193
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
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Dr.Hess' How To Diagnose Your Charging System
Buy about a $10-20 digital multi meter. Fully charge the battery (overnight on a 1 Amp charger).
Scale on DC Volts, around 20V max voltage scale. Nominal readings are given in brackets. Check voltage across battery terminals (12.8). Turn bike on. Check voltage (less than previous, ~12.0+, depending on headlight, accessories). Start bike and let idle. Check voltage (could be 12.0 to 15). Rev to about 2500. Check voltage (should be more than observed with bike on but motor not running, and more than with bike off. Ideally between 13 and 15.) Turn high beam on. Should be about the same, give or take a little. If the voltage is over 15 or 15.5-ish with a headlight on, I'd consider replacing the regulator and/or checking all grounds (battery to frame, regulator to frame in particular). If the battery voltage with the headlight on, bike not running is less than around 11.5-ish, I’d replace the battery. If it’s 10, it’s past it’s prime.
If you pass the above tests, your system is most likely fine, including the regulator and stator. If you don't pass, then:
Bike off. Meter set on Ohms, medium-ish scale, like 20K or 200K Ohms max scale, depending on your meter. Pull stator plug. Ground the meter black lead to a good chassis ground, like a bolt or even the battery negative. With the red lead, touch a different part of the bike, like the engine case at an unpainted part or another bolt. Meter should read low ohms, like 0. If it doesn’t, you didn’t ground the black lead. With the red lead, touch each contact on the motor side (stator) of the plug (the part stuck in the case). Depending on if your case has a male or female plug, if you can't see the metal part/pin of the plug, you can put a paper clip in the hole and touch the paperclip with your meter red. Meter reading should be infinity on all pins. If it isn't, your stator is shorted to the case, replace.
The following is for single phase systems. I don't have a multi-phase and haven't had to diagnose anyone elses, so I haven't dug into those systems.
Set meter to lowest ohm scale, like 200 Ohms, typically. (Note: Not 200K ohms). Check resistance between the two stator plug pins. Should be fairly low. My Book says 0.2-0.4 ohms. The spec is in your shop manual. If it is infinity, stator is blown open. If it is 0, stator is shorted to itself.
Set meter to AC Volts, 100V scale. Attach each meter lead to a stator pin. You may need to rig up some type of temporary plug. It is important that nothing can short to ground or to each other accidentally, or you will blow the stator if it wasn't blown before. An old plug off of your last regulator is a good way to do it, but, get creative and be careful. I can do it holidng the leads on the pins once the bike is running, but I don't like to. Start bike. Voltage should vary with engine speed. Specs are in your shop manual, but 35V at a couple thousand RPM is probably about right. My book says 19-26 V / 1K RPM.
If you passed that stator test and failed the first test, your regulator is shot. If you failed any part of the stator test, replace both regulator and stator.
Buy about a $10-20 digital multi meter. Fully charge the battery (overnight on a 1 Amp charger).
Scale on DC Volts, around 20V max voltage scale. Nominal readings are given in brackets. Check voltage across battery terminals (12.8). Turn bike on. Check voltage (less than previous, ~12.0+, depending on headlight, accessories). Start bike and let idle. Check voltage (could be 12.0 to 15). Rev to about 2500. Check voltage (should be more than observed with bike on but motor not running, and more than with bike off. Ideally between 13 and 15.) Turn high beam on. Should be about the same, give or take a little. If the voltage is over 15 or 15.5-ish with a headlight on, I'd consider replacing the regulator and/or checking all grounds (battery to frame, regulator to frame in particular). If the battery voltage with the headlight on, bike not running is less than around 11.5-ish, I’d replace the battery. If it’s 10, it’s past it’s prime.
If you pass the above tests, your system is most likely fine, including the regulator and stator. If you don't pass, then:
Bike off. Meter set on Ohms, medium-ish scale, like 20K or 200K Ohms max scale, depending on your meter. Pull stator plug. Ground the meter black lead to a good chassis ground, like a bolt or even the battery negative. With the red lead, touch a different part of the bike, like the engine case at an unpainted part or another bolt. Meter should read low ohms, like 0. If it doesn’t, you didn’t ground the black lead. With the red lead, touch each contact on the motor side (stator) of the plug (the part stuck in the case). Depending on if your case has a male or female plug, if you can't see the metal part/pin of the plug, you can put a paper clip in the hole and touch the paperclip with your meter red. Meter reading should be infinity on all pins. If it isn't, your stator is shorted to the case, replace.
The following is for single phase systems. I don't have a multi-phase and haven't had to diagnose anyone elses, so I haven't dug into those systems.
Set meter to lowest ohm scale, like 200 Ohms, typically. (Note: Not 200K ohms). Check resistance between the two stator plug pins. Should be fairly low. My Book says 0.2-0.4 ohms. The spec is in your shop manual. If it is infinity, stator is blown open. If it is 0, stator is shorted to itself.
Set meter to AC Volts, 100V scale. Attach each meter lead to a stator pin. You may need to rig up some type of temporary plug. It is important that nothing can short to ground or to each other accidentally, or you will blow the stator if it wasn't blown before. An old plug off of your last regulator is a good way to do it, but, get creative and be careful. I can do it holidng the leads on the pins once the bike is running, but I don't like to. Start bike. Voltage should vary with engine speed. Specs are in your shop manual, but 35V at a couple thousand RPM is probably about right. My book says 19-26 V / 1K RPM.
If you passed that stator test and failed the first test, your regulator is shot. If you failed any part of the stator test, replace both regulator and stator.
#7
06-13-2010, 10:29 PM
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#8
06-13-2010, 10:48 PM
I had that happen last week on my 99 FXSTC. I rode it to town, shut it off, and it would not restart. Called my sweetie, and told her to bring the jumper cables. Got her started, and rode home. Charged the battery, and then did the checks as above. No charging at battery, good AC volts at alternator plug. Changed regulator and all is well again.
I had not thought about it until this happened, but I have no charge light on my bike. Even my old 84 Iron Head Sportster had a charge light. Go figure.
I had not thought about it until this happened, but I have no charge light on my bike. Even my old 84 Iron Head Sportster had a charge light. Go figure.
#9
06-14-2010, 04:55 AM
Grand HDF Member
Battery Charge Condition:
12.7V = 100%
12.6V = 75%
12.3 V = 50%
12.0V = 25%
11.8V = 0%
Straight from the battery inclosed brochure. If I was a betting man I'd bet dollars to do-nuts that it is the regulator/battery. Something usually has to short the stator to take it out like the Dr says.
Get a good one or you will be doing this again. If it is the stator and regulator I suggest you contact Compu-Fire and get one of their "systems".
Went through 4 regulators, and 3 stators from HD before changeing to Compu-Fire and haven't had battery or charging problems since.
I do believe that 2yrs. is about all the life you can get out of a HD battery with the HD 22 amp system. That is a little short, but close to what we were getting on my wife's '85 FXEF. I was getting 4 to 5 yrs on my '01 FXDXT(Twinkie).
Pay heed to the "Don't smash your fingers when replaceing the rotor(magnetic thing)" it really exerts a "pull" when replaceing it. Also pay attention to any shims and their locations on the rotor and clutch housing. Good luck with plugging the leaks.
This isn't a "bad" job just a little tedious, so set-up comfortably and allow a half day to get-r-done. (Won't take that long if you have the "right" tools)
12.7V = 100%
12.6V = 75%
12.3 V = 50%
12.0V = 25%
11.8V = 0%
Straight from the battery inclosed brochure. If I was a betting man I'd bet dollars to do-nuts that it is the regulator/battery. Something usually has to short the stator to take it out like the Dr says.
Get a good one or you will be doing this again. If it is the stator and regulator I suggest you contact Compu-Fire and get one of their "systems".
Went through 4 regulators, and 3 stators from HD before changeing to Compu-Fire and haven't had battery or charging problems since.
I do believe that 2yrs. is about all the life you can get out of a HD battery with the HD 22 amp system. That is a little short, but close to what we were getting on my wife's '85 FXEF. I was getting 4 to 5 yrs on my '01 FXDXT(Twinkie).
Pay heed to the "Don't smash your fingers when replaceing the rotor(magnetic thing)" it really exerts a "pull" when replaceing it. Also pay attention to any shims and their locations on the rotor and clutch housing. Good luck with plugging the leaks.
This isn't a "bad" job just a little tedious, so set-up comfortably and allow a half day to get-r-done. (Won't take that long if you have the "right" tools)
#10
06-14-2010, 07:38 AM
If you have to do the stator get an old cutting board and make a wedge to loosen the compensator nut. I read that somewhere and cut up one of my wife's old boards - didn't tell her, just did it and then played dumb when she asked where the board went. It really works well - just put a couple 2"x4" sections together and then stagger them a little and then wedge it into the chain between the gear. As you lossen the nut it wedges between the gear and chain and makes it possible to get the bugger off.