Back on the subject,This ethanol **** is really screwing with my 10.5:1.I wound up cutting the timing back today to elimante the dreaded knock...But it is easily dealt with.10min and a screw driver.

 

Are you running a VOES ??

 

Youd be suprised to know that fuel with ethanol has a higher detonation rating then plain gasoline, Ill say it once and ill say it again, the first harley guy with decent resources that markets a e85 friendly carb/injector set up will be gazillionaire, mark my words, We have been working with quick fuel and have the e85 thing down, 13 to 1 468 we spray the snot out of on gas you can buy at the pump, nothing more beautiful than that.

 

I know that nothing is impossible, it may not be known yet, but not impossible...... However with an AF ratio of 9.9:1 on E-85 vs 14.7:1 with gasoline, along with mixture variations at the pump, I simply dont see how you could do it efficiently/economicaly with a carb.. Modern cars can get along with it due to o2's and injection that can adjust accordingly and do it well... As far as making an injected HD handle it, all it would take is to bring them into the 21st century technology wise. It is an interesting idea though, to make a cab bike forgiving on the fuel side... How willing would the average carb guy be to add a computer and o2 sensors to their bike though.. Most of the "dinosaur" riders(myself included), have chosen to ride them for their ability to wrench on them.. dunno.......

 

Its easy to do it with a carb, matter of fact too easy, the problem being on an automotive application, we can easily remove the air bleeds,metering plates and all that jazz, a motorcycle carb is cast, which means the orfices are a fixed size, Thats why i said someone has to make a e85 carb. Are you going to gain fuel mileage...nope, probably get worse, since it requires additional fuel or more fuel than 100 percent gasonline. What you are getting, is 105 octane, at the pump for 2.40 ....oh, and you would think air cooled guys would be worshiping the stuff, its runs much much cooler when jetted corectly, and just so you guys know, oh, and the technology is here, powercommander 5, and earlier models for the metric bikes. have switchable maps, therefore, when you wanna run e85/e15/e100 or in high altitudes....any kinda a/f change, you can hit the switch, i believe it will store 3 maps??? but, guess what, you cant run e85 in a harley..why, cuz their **** poor injectors will max out duty cycles trying to pump that much fuel, The japanese have figured it out, you would think as much as hd charges for their non technological marvels, they would be up to speed with the rest of the world.

 

I think youre assuming no variables.. Does anyone actually trust the "E85" lable on the pump? Granted, if you set up for E85 and you get E50, it will just run rich and potentially foul plugs.. But......... If you assume E10, as we're supposed to have now, and get E50, you could be in for a lean condition and lots of $$ in repairs..

Now, maybe I missunderstood you and you're only talking about running E85.. If thats the case, I dont see it being a poblem finding a carb to fit that application.. Never looked though.. The whole ethanol thing just has me pretty ticked....

 

E85 is 85% ethanol, No more no less, Dont confuse that with fuel you can purchase as gasoline. They dont have a guaranteed amount ethanol they put in your gasoline, Its suppose to be under 15%, but hey, its our government and well, they have no rules...lol

 

And 93 is always 93, no more no less huh??

Exactly my point with your last sentence though.. But, there are rules, subject to change, based on their agenda of course...

So, I guess I've got a question with your original point.. Why would it be so magical to build a carb that runs only E85?? Seems like you could just over carb the bike and or restrict the intake.. No??

 

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It doesnt work like that, you have a given amount of air a engine needs, you match fuel with that air, Kinda follow, E85 takes up to 30-50% more fuel, therefore fuel orfices need to be much larger than gasoline.,

Q: Why should I switch to E85?
A: E85 is a renewable fuel source that is also environmentally friendly. Its performance is comparable to race gas at a fraction of the cost. Your engine will run cooler and your ETs will be less affected by atmospheric changes. E85 is not corrosive like methanol and does not leave carbon deposits like gas so maintenance is reduced across the board. Your oil stays looking like new.

Q: What is the difference in ethanol and methanol?
A: Both fuels have an excellent intake air charge cooling effect. Ethanol (grain or ethyl alcohol) is a biofuel made through the distillation of renewable resources like corn, sugar cane and switch grass. Yes, this is the same process they use to make alcoholic beverages like liquor. Fuel ethanol is 180 proof when produced. 15% regular 87 octane gasoline is added to E100 to add a little lubricant as well as ease the initial cold startup. Methanol (wood alcohol) is produced through a chemical process. By its nature methanol is more corrosive and provides 35% less energy then E85 so you have to burn 35% more of it to make comparable power. E85 cost the same or less then regular unleaded gasoline, methanol cost $4.00 - $5.00 a gallon.

Q: What type of performance can I expect from making the switch to E85?
A: It has been our experience that E85 with its 105 octane rating and high tolerance to detonation is superior to premium pump gas and equal to and in most cases better than 110 octane race gas. We picked up a tenth of a second and 2 to 3 miles per hour in the eighth mile after switching to E85 from 110 race gas and our engine runs 20 degrees cooler.

Q: What will I be saving from running E85 over racing gas?
A: 110 race gas sells for $7.00 a gallon at the track; E85 is around $2.50 a gallon at the pump. The cost of a Race on E85 conversion kit for a 4150 style carb is $250.00 let’s see: You burn roughly 1/2 gallon of fuel on a run so you would save $2.25 on fuel per run. You will be going green both environmentally and financially every time you fire your race car.

Q: Don’t I have to replace all the “rubber” in my fuel system so it want be eaten up by the alcohol in E85?
A: NO!!! We started out on this journey with a complete gasoline system. We upped the flow 30% to compensate for the lower heat energy output of ethanol and left everything else the same just to see the effects. We switched to E85 at the end of the 2006 racing season and to date we have found zero deterioration or corrosion anywhere in our fuel system. We leave it in the system all the time. We don’t drain anything between races or use any type of fuel lube.

Q: How much compression can I run with E85 fuel just the way it comes out of the pump at my local station?
A: This is one question I don't have a concrete answer for. We are running it in engines up to 14.5:1 naturally aspirated and some fairly high boost forced induction applications with great results. I have seen charts that draw the line at 16:1 but there again I just don’t have the data yet of a failure directly due to the compression limit of pump grade E85 being reached.

Q: Where can I find E85 in this area?
A: You can find E85 in any area by logging onto www.e85fuel.com and just click on your state for a list of stations that carry it.
ore fuel, therefore fuel orfices need to be much larger than gasoline.

 

You've certainly done your homework on it..

I have do disagree with some of the inferences of it being "green" though... As you said, its roughly 30% less efficient and the pumps I've seen, it costs about the same as 87.. So, compared to gas, its just as expensive per gallon and requires more fuel to do the job.. Add to that, its currently made as a corn bi-product.. The problem there, corn is renewable, but also very important to other areas of our life, such as food... As more fields are planted with corn to produce fuel, less will be planted for consumption by humans and livestock, causing our prices to go up accross the board. Then factor in that more farmers are growing corn rather than other crops due to its popularity.. More for fuel and more for food while still burning as much or more oil to harvest this magical ethanol... Then, dont forget, the fuel also attracts water and deteriorates much faster than gasoline.. All in all, I believe its a bad choice overall....

If you want green and clean, LPG and CNG would make much more sense..

Now, on the drag strip.. It makes perfect sense for all the reasons you mentioned.. Various alcohols have been used for years in that application..

I think we're just looking at it from different sides of the table..