96 fuel injection?
#32
07-08-2009 | 03:14 PM
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,578
Likes: 458
From: On a Lake, not far from the Gulf
Here are the directions from my 1998 service manual:
1) To activate the diagnostic feature of the Check Engine Lamp proceed as follows:
a) Turn the Ignition/Light Key Switch to IGNITION for three seconds (One second after the fuel pump stops running), and then switch back to the OFF (FLHTC/U-I) or LOCK (FLHRC-I) position for three seconds.
b) Repeat the instructions under step 1a. above.
c) Turn the Ignition/ Light Key Switch to Ignition, and wait approximately eight seconds fpr the Check Engine Lamp to start flashing.
2. All trouble codes are sent out as a series of flashes.
The transmission of a trouble code is always preceeded by a series of rapid flashes (about 3 per second). This "intermission" is followed by a 2 second pause in which the lamp is off. The lamp will then flash one or more times to indicate the first digit of the trouble code. The length of time the lamp is illuminated, and the length of time in which it is off are each about 1 second in duration. Simply count the number of times the lamp flashes in order to retrieve the first digit of the trouble code.
1) To activate the diagnostic feature of the Check Engine Lamp proceed as follows:
a) Turn the Ignition/Light Key Switch to IGNITION for three seconds (One second after the fuel pump stops running), and then switch back to the OFF (FLHTC/U-I) or LOCK (FLHRC-I) position for three seconds.
b) Repeat the instructions under step 1a. above.
c) Turn the Ignition/ Light Key Switch to Ignition, and wait approximately eight seconds fpr the Check Engine Lamp to start flashing.
2. All trouble codes are sent out as a series of flashes.
The transmission of a trouble code is always preceeded by a series of rapid flashes (about 3 per second). This "intermission" is followed by a 2 second pause in which the lamp is off. The lamp will then flash one or more times to indicate the first digit of the trouble code. The length of time the lamp is illuminated, and the length of time in which it is off are each about 1 second in duration. Simply count the number of times the lamp flashes in order to retrieve the first digit of the trouble code.
#33
07-13-2009 | 03:21 PM
Cruiser
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 163
Likes: 1
From:
2nd Mike
You will need to change out that 96ecm for a 97ecm and go for a map upgrade to StageII. The 96ecm is not reprogrammable and nothing you attach will override the master map in the box.
Get the map upgrade even if you have an add-on EFI controller. Someday down the road that unit could fail and you will need to get home on something have, the Stage II map installed is a safe back-up. Once unplugged you have nothing.
A new 97ecm can be had for about $400, maybe less if you can find one. Save the pain and get a new one. But get one at your closest stealer as they will have to also upload the map program for you. I beleive they need the bike to do the complete upload. The mapping is about $150.
You will need to change out that 96ecm for a 97ecm and go for a map upgrade to StageII. The 96ecm is not reprogrammable and nothing you attach will override the master map in the box.
Get the map upgrade even if you have an add-on EFI controller. Someday down the road that unit could fail and you will need to get home on something have, the Stage II map installed is a safe back-up. Once unplugged you have nothing.
A new 97ecm can be had for about $400, maybe less if you can find one. Save the pain and get a new one. But get one at your closest stealer as they will have to also upload the map program for you. I beleive they need the bike to do the complete upload. The mapping is about $150.
#34
07-16-2009 | 12:03 AM
Tourer
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 424
Likes: 1
From: Middle of Kansas
2nd Mike
You will need to change out that 96ecm for a 97ecm and go for a map upgrade to StageII. The 96ecm is not reprogrammable and nothing you attach will override the master map in the box.
Get the map upgrade even if you have an add-on EFI controller. Someday down the road that unit could fail and you will need to get home on something have, the Stage II map installed is a safe back-up. Once unplugged you have nothing.
A new 97ecm can be had for about $400, maybe less if you can find one. Save the pain and get a new one. But get one at your closest stealer as they will have to also upload the map program for you. I beleive they need the bike to do the complete upload. The mapping is about $150.
You will need to change out that 96ecm for a 97ecm and go for a map upgrade to StageII. The 96ecm is not reprogrammable and nothing you attach will override the master map in the box.
Get the map upgrade even if you have an add-on EFI controller. Someday down the road that unit could fail and you will need to get home on something have, the Stage II map installed is a safe back-up. Once unplugged you have nothing.
A new 97ecm can be had for about $400, maybe less if you can find one. Save the pain and get a new one. But get one at your closest stealer as they will have to also upload the map program for you. I beleive they need the bike to do the complete upload. The mapping is about $150.
Thanks for affirming what I already expected.
I think I'll install the "black tops" for now. It runs good/OK with them.
I have my eye on a new street glide so I'll see what happens!
Thanks again,
Mike.
#35
07-27-2009 | 11:41 AM
Novice
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 18
Likes: 2
From: middle TN
'96 EFI bike questions
I have a 96 FLHRI, that I've had since 97. I have put well over 100k miles on it, at least 85k of which have been as a modified bike. I have made many mods to it over the years, including many that don't work. (Part of the learning experience). Have spent mucho bucks to get myself educated about these MM bikes. You have to live with the damn things to know what works for you and what doesn't. Following opinions are based on that experience, and what works for me. YMMBD.
The 96 ECM was non-flashable. The service replacement ECM has been the -97A (B?, C?) since about 97-98. You go to a dealer, that's what you get. btw, I have a brand-new, in -the-box, -97A that has no flash in it. I could be persuaded to sell it if anyone needs one.
Frame was changed in 97. Seats, rear fenders, other stuff, are different. Really irritates you when you want a part and find that it fits "97-up".
See below for more.
The 96 ECM was non-flashable. The service replacement ECM has been the -97A (B?, C?) since about 97-98. You go to a dealer, that's what you get. btw, I have a brand-new, in -the-box, -97A that has no flash in it. I could be persuaded to sell it if anyone needs one.
Frame was changed in 97. Seats, rear fenders, other stuff, are different. Really irritates you when you want a part and find that it fits "97-up".
See below for more.
A basic heavy bike mod is a EV-27 cam that gives grunt and pulls to 5000 rpms, check for the 32423-97 ecm and install a basic controller which is a Power Commander 3 and find a canned map on the Dynojet website to match your build.
Harley has a Stage 2 that is a SE-3 cam, bigger red injectors, air filter and a flash cartrage that Harley loads to your ECM 32423-97, the flash is supposed to raise the rpm limit but info seems to be cloudy on what it actually does. The Stage 2 does work and some fair prices on E-bay
>>> Nothing cloudy about it. Stage 2 has much bigger 31 lb. injectors (40% bigger), 6000 (+- 200) rev limit**, air cleaner, backing plate, and the SE3 cam. Even with this flash, it still desperately needs something like a Power Commander. Note that the SE3 cam is almost identical to the EV27. Close enough that you can't tell the difference in the way it runs. In my opinion, neither of those is the right cam for this combo. Big hole in lower/mid, then pulls hard from 3000 or so on up. They both need 9.x:1 compression to run right. Same is true for W6, btw. EV13 is a better choice with stock compression---SE4 if you really must stick with HD parts. I've run them all. Even with the stage II, the thing doesn't really pull well. Without more compression, more cost effective option is the stage I, even though that doesn't make as much HP on top, it does make better TQ down lower than does the stage II.
**Note that the later Power Commanders have the ability to increase the rev limit without having to buy any of the "stage" flashes from HD. Saves you money, and the PCIII will do whatever needs to be done other wise.
Having the heads reworked, milled and EV-27 or V-thunder 3020 will really wake the Evo up to a different bike. Bigger injectors should be installed, PC3 or a Sert and heading towards a dyno tune which is $$$$$
>>> If you do anything other than stage I to one of these, you have to go with the "red" injectors. btw, these are stock on 97-98 bikes, as opposed to the 96s, which had the "black" injectors, which are too small for any changes. On my current bike, even the red injectors were running nearly static (95% duty cycle) at max torque (105 lb/ft) with the stock fuel pressure regulator.
Strokers, big bore, heads, camshafts, changing primary gear ratios (yours is 3.15) modded intakes, injectors, bigger fuel regulator, true duels, 2 into 1 exhaust. The world of performance and M&M EFI is obtainable, I know EFI and performance can go together from my Evo ride but runability frustrations do occur and it takes time to get it perfect.
>>> Not to nit-pick, but the primary ratio on these bikes is 1.44:1. It is the final drive ratio that is 3.15:1. The point is well made though. Going to a 30-tooth transmission pulley is an great change, giving a 3.36:1 final. Going to a 24-tooth engine (compensator) sprocket is also great, giving a 3.37:1 final. Compensator is easier, and cheaper too, probably. That is the compensator that came on Softails about 93 or so. Goes right on, but need to pay attention to the primary chain adjustment as the chain will now be a little long.
If you want the Harley loping idle, do the carb change over and save money instead of chasing it with the EFI. A modded M&M intake, large cam and fuel will get it close to the sound but not consistanly.
>>> The infamous idle is caused by the Y-intake manifold on the carb bikes. It causes cross-talk between the cylinders at low RPM. The characteristic idle quality has little or nothing to do with the V-angle, idle speed or whatever. Also, EVO will never idle as lopey as will a shovel or Pan. That's because their manifolds (at least the earlier ones) were even worse than the EVO. The MM module, because it has separate runners for each cylinder, has no cross-talk, and so idles more smoothly--much to the chagrin of those who want that lopey idle. You can set the idle down on the MM but it will still not lope much. Unless you're willing to screw up the way it runs at other points, you just have to accept it for what it is. Personally, I would never (!) give up FI just to get a lumpy idle.
Your idle screw is behind the air filter element through a hole in the air cleaner backing plate on the right side of the backing plate, air filter element needs to be removed.
>>> Just turning this screw (an allen or torx, depending on year) will set the idle, but there is more to be done than that. The ECM must learn the new setting, or it may not be able to recognize the TPS voltage that corresponds to the actual throttle opening. There is a procedure for this, but basically, you can usually get away with setting the idle, then disconnecting the battery for a few minutes.
Note that the ECM will shut down if the battery voltage gets to 11 volts, so if you set the idle real low, and then run around town with all the lights on, idling while you talk to friends, etc., you run the risk of running the battery down. And there's no jump-starting, towing with a rope to start, or like that on an FI bike. If it shuts down, it stays down, until you get the battery charged again. And its start running real crappy even before that. Not a big chance that'll happen, but it can, so you should be aware of it.
Harley has a Stage 2 that is a SE-3 cam, bigger red injectors, air filter and a flash cartrage that Harley loads to your ECM 32423-97, the flash is supposed to raise the rpm limit but info seems to be cloudy on what it actually does. The Stage 2 does work and some fair prices on E-bay
>>> Nothing cloudy about it. Stage 2 has much bigger 31 lb. injectors (40% bigger), 6000 (+- 200) rev limit**, air cleaner, backing plate, and the SE3 cam. Even with this flash, it still desperately needs something like a Power Commander. Note that the SE3 cam is almost identical to the EV27. Close enough that you can't tell the difference in the way it runs. In my opinion, neither of those is the right cam for this combo. Big hole in lower/mid, then pulls hard from 3000 or so on up. They both need 9.x:1 compression to run right. Same is true for W6, btw. EV13 is a better choice with stock compression---SE4 if you really must stick with HD parts. I've run them all. Even with the stage II, the thing doesn't really pull well. Without more compression, more cost effective option is the stage I, even though that doesn't make as much HP on top, it does make better TQ down lower than does the stage II.
**Note that the later Power Commanders have the ability to increase the rev limit without having to buy any of the "stage" flashes from HD. Saves you money, and the PCIII will do whatever needs to be done other wise.
Having the heads reworked, milled and EV-27 or V-thunder 3020 will really wake the Evo up to a different bike. Bigger injectors should be installed, PC3 or a Sert and heading towards a dyno tune which is $$$$$
>>> If you do anything other than stage I to one of these, you have to go with the "red" injectors. btw, these are stock on 97-98 bikes, as opposed to the 96s, which had the "black" injectors, which are too small for any changes. On my current bike, even the red injectors were running nearly static (95% duty cycle) at max torque (105 lb/ft) with the stock fuel pressure regulator.
Strokers, big bore, heads, camshafts, changing primary gear ratios (yours is 3.15) modded intakes, injectors, bigger fuel regulator, true duels, 2 into 1 exhaust. The world of performance and M&M EFI is obtainable, I know EFI and performance can go together from my Evo ride but runability frustrations do occur and it takes time to get it perfect.
>>> Not to nit-pick, but the primary ratio on these bikes is 1.44:1. It is the final drive ratio that is 3.15:1. The point is well made though. Going to a 30-tooth transmission pulley is an great change, giving a 3.36:1 final. Going to a 24-tooth engine (compensator) sprocket is also great, giving a 3.37:1 final. Compensator is easier, and cheaper too, probably. That is the compensator that came on Softails about 93 or so. Goes right on, but need to pay attention to the primary chain adjustment as the chain will now be a little long.
If you want the Harley loping idle, do the carb change over and save money instead of chasing it with the EFI. A modded M&M intake, large cam and fuel will get it close to the sound but not consistanly.
>>> The infamous idle is caused by the Y-intake manifold on the carb bikes. It causes cross-talk between the cylinders at low RPM. The characteristic idle quality has little or nothing to do with the V-angle, idle speed or whatever. Also, EVO will never idle as lopey as will a shovel or Pan. That's because their manifolds (at least the earlier ones) were even worse than the EVO. The MM module, because it has separate runners for each cylinder, has no cross-talk, and so idles more smoothly--much to the chagrin of those who want that lopey idle. You can set the idle down on the MM but it will still not lope much. Unless you're willing to screw up the way it runs at other points, you just have to accept it for what it is. Personally, I would never (!) give up FI just to get a lumpy idle.
Your idle screw is behind the air filter element through a hole in the air cleaner backing plate on the right side of the backing plate, air filter element needs to be removed.
>>> Just turning this screw (an allen or torx, depending on year) will set the idle, but there is more to be done than that. The ECM must learn the new setting, or it may not be able to recognize the TPS voltage that corresponds to the actual throttle opening. There is a procedure for this, but basically, you can usually get away with setting the idle, then disconnecting the battery for a few minutes.
Note that the ECM will shut down if the battery voltage gets to 11 volts, so if you set the idle real low, and then run around town with all the lights on, idling while you talk to friends, etc., you run the risk of running the battery down. And there's no jump-starting, towing with a rope to start, or like that on an FI bike. If it shuts down, it stays down, until you get the battery charged again. And its start running real crappy even before that. Not a big chance that'll happen, but it can, so you should be aware of it.
#36
07-27-2009 | 11:58 AM
Novice
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 18
Likes: 2
From: middle TN
See below.
2nd Mike
You will need to change out that 96ecm for a 97ecm and go for a map upgrade to StageII. The 96ecm is not reprogrammable and nothing you attach will override the master map in the box.
>>> Actually, I think Vance & Hines still offers an add-on controller that will work with this ECM. I've still got one around here somewhere, and I saw one in a catalog not too long ago.
Get the map upgrade even if you have an add-on EFI controller. Someday down the road that unit could fail and you will need to get home on something have, the Stage II map installed is a safe back-up. Once unplugged you have nothing.
>>> If you get the replacement ECM and stage II flash only, and do nothing else except set up a PCIII for that combo, you will probably find that it will not run as a backup--assuming you ever need one. That ECM is set up for bigger injectors, and will run lean as heck on stock black (1996) injectors. 1996 bikes are way different from 1997-1998 in many respects. ...Gotta be careful about assumptions, doncha know. btw, I got one of the very first PCIIs available, and have had only one fail in these 8-9 years (or however long it's been). And that was a very early one.
A new 97ecm can be had for about $400, maybe less if you can find one. Save the pain and get a new one. But get one at your closest stealer as they will have to also upload the map program for you. I beleive they need the bike to do the complete upload. The mapping is about $150.
>>> Most also charge around $50 labor. The ECMs are about that online, but are probably more at a dealer.
You will need to change out that 96ecm for a 97ecm and go for a map upgrade to StageII. The 96ecm is not reprogrammable and nothing you attach will override the master map in the box.
>>> Actually, I think Vance & Hines still offers an add-on controller that will work with this ECM. I've still got one around here somewhere, and I saw one in a catalog not too long ago.
Get the map upgrade even if you have an add-on EFI controller. Someday down the road that unit could fail and you will need to get home on something have, the Stage II map installed is a safe back-up. Once unplugged you have nothing.
>>> If you get the replacement ECM and stage II flash only, and do nothing else except set up a PCIII for that combo, you will probably find that it will not run as a backup--assuming you ever need one. That ECM is set up for bigger injectors, and will run lean as heck on stock black (1996) injectors. 1996 bikes are way different from 1997-1998 in many respects. ...Gotta be careful about assumptions, doncha know. btw, I got one of the very first PCIIs available, and have had only one fail in these 8-9 years (or however long it's been). And that was a very early one.
A new 97ecm can be had for about $400, maybe less if you can find one. Save the pain and get a new one. But get one at your closest stealer as they will have to also upload the map program for you. I beleive they need the bike to do the complete upload. The mapping is about $150.
>>> Most also charge around $50 labor. The ECMs are about that online, but are probably more at a dealer.
#37
07-27-2009 | 10:00 PM
Tourer
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 424
Likes: 1
From: Middle of Kansas
Thanks for the education Barry.
As much as love my 96,I've put a lot of sweat and $$'s into it,I get a little frustrated with the "97&up" myself.
I actually ran a 97 HD seat on it for a couple of years.Thats the one in the pic. I had to build an adapter for the rear bolt.Other than that,it fit.
I recently bought a Corbin dual tour(for a 96) to satisfy my wife on long trips.
I don't think I could have made a 97&up fit. It's tolerances in the "mold to fit area" are MUCH tighter than HD's!
I might be interested in the ECM.
PM me with the details if your interested.
Thanks again,
Miike
As much as love my 96,I've put a lot of sweat and $$'s into it,I get a little frustrated with the "97&up" myself.
I actually ran a 97 HD seat on it for a couple of years.Thats the one in the pic. I had to build an adapter for the rear bolt.Other than that,it fit.
I recently bought a Corbin dual tour(for a 96) to satisfy my wife on long trips.
I don't think I could have made a 97&up fit. It's tolerances in the "mold to fit area" are MUCH tighter than HD's!
I might be interested in the ECM.
PM me with the details if your interested.
Thanks again,
Miike
#38
07-27-2009 | 11:29 PM
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,938
Likes: 1,802
From: Ohio
The only problem I have been fighting with the PC3 on a warmed up Evo is that it hits a wall on timing removal and becomes a fine line on fuel added to control detonation. I've had to take afr's down 12.7 to control detonation in the roll on area with 95-100% fuel addition with a stock regulator amd timing removal is maxed.
Tuners in debates refer to M&M timing as fuzzy logic, in really hot weather, 2 up, pulling a hill, the Harley Stage 2 is a pinger until 100% throttle and then the timing falls back, I used "cloudy" earlier in referance to the Stage 2 because I don't know if the flash causes this severe retard in timing @ 100% tps and nobody has answered it.
My PC3 timing tables (stage 2 flash) are maxed -10 in the 40,60,80% tps and needs more removed in these areas, at 100% tps I can run timing up to +6 and detonation becomes slight and backing back down to +5 works, that is a 15 degree ECM retard swing from 80% tps to 100% tps, I can understand why tuners call M&M fuzzy logic and they only have 4 hours to get these things right in a standard dyno tune.
Mr Bassinger nailed the 3.37 gear change, money well spent.
.
Tuners in debates refer to M&M timing as fuzzy logic, in really hot weather, 2 up, pulling a hill, the Harley Stage 2 is a pinger until 100% throttle and then the timing falls back, I used "cloudy" earlier in referance to the Stage 2 because I don't know if the flash causes this severe retard in timing @ 100% tps and nobody has answered it.
My PC3 timing tables (stage 2 flash) are maxed -10 in the 40,60,80% tps and needs more removed in these areas, at 100% tps I can run timing up to +6 and detonation becomes slight and backing back down to +5 works, that is a 15 degree ECM retard swing from 80% tps to 100% tps, I can understand why tuners call M&M fuzzy logic and they only have 4 hours to get these things right in a standard dyno tune.
Mr Bassinger nailed the 3.37 gear change, money well spent.
.
#39
07-28-2009 | 12:20 AM
Tourer
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 424
Likes: 1
From: Middle of Kansas
1997 bagger, I need to give you credit as well.
It made it all make sense.
Now that I know what I'm up against,I stand a chance!
I spun a cam bearing a couple of years ago that gouged the cam,took out the oil pump with the resulting metal fragments,and made me decide to upgrade to the stage 2 kit.
A stock replacement cam and oil pump would have been more affordable but the motor head in me made me take it up a notch,
To cut costs at that time,I elected to purchase a DFO rather than a new ecm thinking that I could dial it in.
With the black injectors,it works but I know I'm missing out.
Toss in the red injectors and it fuel fowls the plugs before I can try any adjustment.
Even with the black injectors,I'm running rich at idle.
I may need to replace the front cylinder temp sensor and try again. It ran rich before I installed the stage2 cam.
Thanks for your input.
Another day,another dollar
I love a good challenge.
It made it all make sense.
Now that I know what I'm up against,I stand a chance!
I spun a cam bearing a couple of years ago that gouged the cam,took out the oil pump with the resulting metal fragments,and made me decide to upgrade to the stage 2 kit.
A stock replacement cam and oil pump would have been more affordable but the motor head in me made me take it up a notch,
To cut costs at that time,I elected to purchase a DFO rather than a new ecm thinking that I could dial it in.
With the black injectors,it works but I know I'm missing out.
Toss in the red injectors and it fuel fowls the plugs before I can try any adjustment.
Even with the black injectors,I'm running rich at idle.
I may need to replace the front cylinder temp sensor and try again. It ran rich before I installed the stage2 cam.
Thanks for your input.
Another day,another dollar
I love a good challenge.
#40
07-29-2009 | 11:07 AM
Novice
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 18
Likes: 2
From: middle TN
Multiple "Stage II" flashes
>>>You have a problem, but there's no way to know what it is from here. It aint "fuzzy logic" (which refers to an entirely different subject). There's no way you should ever have to take out any appreciable timing in this bike---if you have the correct flash in it. Don't know what you've done to your bike, but here is some more info:
There are three "stage II" flashes for this motor. The most common is just called stage II, and assumes stock heads, pistons, and the remainder of the stage II stuff I mentioned before. The next one is called "stage II with heads", and assumes stage II, plus SE heads and up to 9.5:1 or so CR. The last one is called the "SE43mm" flash, and assumes SE 43mm FI module, SE57 cam, SE heads with 10.5:1 piston, pipes, etc., etc. All are substantially different, especially the 43mm one.
There are three "stage II" flashes for this motor. The most common is just called stage II, and assumes stock heads, pistons, and the remainder of the stage II stuff I mentioned before. The next one is called "stage II with heads", and assumes stage II, plus SE heads and up to 9.5:1 or so CR. The last one is called the "SE43mm" flash, and assumes SE 43mm FI module, SE57 cam, SE heads with 10.5:1 piston, pipes, etc., etc. All are substantially different, especially the 43mm one.
The only problem I have been fighting with the PC3 on a warmed up Evo is that it hits a wall on timing removal and becomes a fine line on fuel added to control detonation. I've had to take afr's down 12.7 to control detonation in the roll on area with 95-100% fuel addition with a stock regulator amd timing removal is maxed.
>>> You may think you're adding 100% fuel, but your injectors will not add this much. On my engines, even the red ones have maxxed out when attempting to add more than about 60% or so. Even with the 3.5 bar regulator, you cannot add 100%. I'd look for a bad filter, pump, regulator, injectors, etc.
Tuners in debates refer to M&M timing as fuzzy logic, in really hot weather, 2 up, pulling a hill, the Harley Stage 2 is a pinger until 100% throttle and then the timing falls back, I used "cloudy" earlier in referance to the Stage 2 because I don't know if the flash causes this severe retard in timing @ 100% tps and nobody has answered it.
My PC3 timing tables (stage 2 flash) are maxed -10 in the 40,60,80% tps and needs more removed in these areas, at 100% tps I can run timing up to +6 and detonation becomes slight and backing back down to +5 works, that is a 15 degree ECM retard swing from 80% tps to 100% tps, I can understand why tuners call M&M fuzzy logic and they only have 4 hours to get these things right in a standard dyno tune.
Mr Bassinger nailed the 3.37 gear change, money well spent.
.
>>> You may think you're adding 100% fuel, but your injectors will not add this much. On my engines, even the red ones have maxxed out when attempting to add more than about 60% or so. Even with the 3.5 bar regulator, you cannot add 100%. I'd look for a bad filter, pump, regulator, injectors, etc.
Tuners in debates refer to M&M timing as fuzzy logic, in really hot weather, 2 up, pulling a hill, the Harley Stage 2 is a pinger until 100% throttle and then the timing falls back, I used "cloudy" earlier in referance to the Stage 2 because I don't know if the flash causes this severe retard in timing @ 100% tps and nobody has answered it.
My PC3 timing tables (stage 2 flash) are maxed -10 in the 40,60,80% tps and needs more removed in these areas, at 100% tps I can run timing up to +6 and detonation becomes slight and backing back down to +5 works, that is a 15 degree ECM retard swing from 80% tps to 100% tps, I can understand why tuners call M&M fuzzy logic and they only have 4 hours to get these things right in a standard dyno tune.
Mr Bassinger nailed the 3.37 gear change, money well spent.
.