Water and oil coming out breather
#21
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Haslet Texas
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If it just started it could be the breather gear Tex. Before I did the cam and top end on the softy I noticed a little more blowby than normal. My gear was missing teeth, was that the cause, dunno.
I put the s&s reed breather in, I don't trust the metal geared ones. That part was made to be a shear part for a reason. Plus while it can't be much, the reed breather does take a little strain off the engine.
I put the s&s reed breather in, I don't trust the metal geared ones. That part was made to be a shear part for a reason. Plus while it can't be much, the reed breather does take a little strain off the engine.
It's not real bad right now so if it isn't gonna hurt anything as john said then I'm not gonna worry about it.
#22
how does fuel get into the oiling system and out the cam covers breather is a real question - combustion assuming its not a 5 to 1 compression worn out 1920 farm tractor is next to impossible - internal combustion temps would vaporize any water EVEN fighters used in WW2 that were water injected did not build up water in the oil ( water has been used to make more power for decades by increasing compression - the steam )
#23
The source for the water comes from the combustion of gasoline. Believe it or not, one gallon of combusted gasoline will produce about one gallon of water. You can check that out yourself if you like. Anyway, that's a lot of water going thru your engine. During the power stroke there will be some blowby of gases into the crankcase. That's a known fact. It's always there. And that blowby contains mostly water vapor. It gets combined with the oil mist and blown out thru the venting system. Some are head breathers and some are case breathers. Either way if the engine is hot, the water vapor will not condense until it leaves and cools outside of the engine. On a stock Harley it will be vented into the intake to be burned by the engine. Humidity has nothing to do with it unless you leave the fill cap off all the time because Harley's oiling systems are virtually air tight.
#24
The source for the water comes from the combustion of gasoline. Believe it or not, one gallon of combusted gasoline will produce about one gallon of water. You can check that out yourself if you like. Anyway, that's a lot of water going thru your engine. During the power stroke there will be some blowby of gases into the crankcase. That's a known fact. It's always there. And that blowby contains mostly water vapor. It gets combined with the oil mist and blown out thru the venting system. Some are head breathers and some are case breathers. Either way if the engine is hot, the water vapor will not condense until it leaves and cools outside of the engine. On a stock Harley it will be vented into the intake to be burned by the engine. Humidity has nothing to do with it unless you leave the fill cap off all the time because Harley's oiling systems are virtually air tight.
#26
Exactly right. Every hydrocarbon combustion process takes a molecule containing hydrogen and carbon (and lots of energy), combines it with oxygen, and produces water and carbon dioxide (and releases the energy).
And lots of other stuff. Gasoline is complicated stuff. That's why the petroleum engineers make the big bux.
But the simplest hydrocarbon (Methane, AKA "natural gas") works exactly the same way.
CH4 + O2 == H2O + CO2 + energy.
Methane + Oxygen == Water + Carbon Dioxide
(If you want to balance the equation, it works out like this:
CH4 + 2 O2 == 2 H2O + CO2 )
Gasoline has much more complex hydrocarbons (in addition to a bunch of other stuff) so the chemistry is more complicated, but it all comes down to the same thing: Burning hydrocarbons produces lots and lots of water.
Once your engine is up to temperature, the water produced by combustion remains in vapor form well until it is out of the exhaust. In cold climates in the winter, when you can see the exhaust coming out of a car, you are seeing the water vapor quickly condensing down into liquid form.
There will always be some products of combustion working their way past the rings (otherwise, engine oil would last forever), and that will always include water.
Bottom line for THC: You may not have noticed it before, but there has always been water coming out of your breather. And it may be that in times of lower atmospheric humidity, the water that comes out that way evaporates before you notice it.
And lots of other stuff. Gasoline is complicated stuff. That's why the petroleum engineers make the big bux.
But the simplest hydrocarbon (Methane, AKA "natural gas") works exactly the same way.
CH4 + O2 == H2O + CO2 + energy.
Methane + Oxygen == Water + Carbon Dioxide
(If you want to balance the equation, it works out like this:
CH4 + 2 O2 == 2 H2O + CO2 )
Gasoline has much more complex hydrocarbons (in addition to a bunch of other stuff) so the chemistry is more complicated, but it all comes down to the same thing: Burning hydrocarbons produces lots and lots of water.
Once your engine is up to temperature, the water produced by combustion remains in vapor form well until it is out of the exhaust. In cold climates in the winter, when you can see the exhaust coming out of a car, you are seeing the water vapor quickly condensing down into liquid form.
There will always be some products of combustion working their way past the rings (otherwise, engine oil would last forever), and that will always include water.
Bottom line for THC: You may not have noticed it before, but there has always been water coming out of your breather. And it may be that in times of lower atmospheric humidity, the water that comes out that way evaporates before you notice it.
#27
while all of that is wonderful it never answers the question about how it the contaminated fuel with water in it that is vaporized ( its gone ) in the combustion chamber during the power stroke of the motor
if you want me to believe it passes the rings on the down stroke of the intake cycle ( its being drawn in a negative - or on the up stroke of the compression stroke even at idle the speed the piston is traveling is really great - it can only enter the oil if it passes the piston rings -- it that what you believe is happening - and 200 degree oil is not helping the water survive ether -- exhaust temps are around 1400 degrees it not at that end
please explain how water in the fuel is getting into the oil at the amount to be not only seen but discharged in a lump out the engines oil vapor vent
if you want me to believe it passes the rings on the down stroke of the intake cycle ( its being drawn in a negative - or on the up stroke of the compression stroke even at idle the speed the piston is traveling is really great - it can only enter the oil if it passes the piston rings -- it that what you believe is happening - and 200 degree oil is not helping the water survive ether -- exhaust temps are around 1400 degrees it not at that end
please explain how water in the fuel is getting into the oil at the amount to be not only seen but discharged in a lump out the engines oil vapor vent
#28
#29
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Haslet Texas
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If it just started it could be the breather gear Tex. Before I did the cam and top end on the softy I noticed a little more blowby than normal. My gear was missing teeth, was that the cause, dunno.
I put the s&s reed breather in, I don't trust the metal geared ones. That part was made to be a shear part for a reason. Plus while it can't be much, the reed breather does take a little strain off the engine.
I put the s&s reed breather in, I don't trust the metal geared ones. That part was made to be a shear part for a reason. Plus while it can't be much, the reed breather does take a little strain off the engine.
Ordered a reed breather.
Will probably put it in over the weekend to see what happens.
#30