Lifter Question
#1
12-30-2015, 11:25 PM
#2
12-31-2015, 02:28 AM
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#3
12-31-2015, 12:14 PM
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What usually recommended is to use lifters according to their places in the lifter blocks, i.e. same lifter in the same hole it came out of. So how old are your own?
"The devil you know is better than the devil you don't".
I'd say if your old ones are fine, stick with them unless you know for sure these are far better quality and/or new(er).
"The devil you know is better than the devil you don't".
I'd say if your old ones are fine, stick with them unless you know for sure these are far better quality and/or new(er).
#4
12-31-2015, 03:20 PM
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12-31-2015, 04:23 PM
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Thanks. It's no big deal, it's just basic engineering good practise. Each element wears slightly so best keep it where it has worn ... if within limits and not replacing.
When you take anything apart, best mark them and put back in the same place.
In real world terms it's not likely to destroy your engine. To illustrate, the principle is, e.g. if you have one part that wears to the left before settling and you replace it with one that wears to the right, then you'll end up with double the tolerance. One piece might be a few thou smaller, another a few thou larger - within tolerances - and so you want them to fit back in the same place otherwise they might end up a little tight or too loose.
What were you concerned about ... the rollers on the tips off lifters being absolutely parallel on the lobes of camshaft, or wear or the rollers' axle?
How many miles are you talking about?
When you take anything apart, best mark them and put back in the same place.
In real world terms it's not likely to destroy your engine. To illustrate, the principle is, e.g. if you have one part that wears to the left before settling and you replace it with one that wears to the right, then you'll end up with double the tolerance. One piece might be a few thou smaller, another a few thou larger - within tolerances - and so you want them to fit back in the same place otherwise they might end up a little tight or too loose.
What were you concerned about ... the rollers on the tips off lifters being absolutely parallel on the lobes of camshaft, or wear or the rollers' axle?
How many miles are you talking about?
#6
12-31-2015, 08:37 PM
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What usually recommended is to use lifters according to their places in the lifter blocks, i.e. same lifter in the same hole it came out of. So how old are your own?
"The devil you know is better than the devil you don't".
I'd say if your old ones are fine, stick with them unless you know for sure these are far better quality and/or new(er).
"The devil you know is better than the devil you don't".
I'd say if your old ones are fine, stick with them unless you know for sure these are far better quality and/or new(er).
#7
01-01-2016, 08:14 AM
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No, the 'correct' answer is as I stated it.
It's in Harley-Davidson's factory service manual ... as it says, "To preserve existing wear patterns".
(P. 245 [3-31] and 251 [3-37] of the digital version I have. It is a basic engineering principle ... "things go back in where they came from").
Personally, I'd agree with you if you had said, "it's no big thing to lose sleep over if you don't" (we all make mistakes) ... but it's better that folks at least know what good practice is first, and establish good habits (and RTFM), rather than encourage them to be sloppy. Because another day it may well matter.
Correct me if I am wrong.
It's in Harley-Davidson's factory service manual ... as it says, "To preserve existing wear patterns".
(P. 245 [3-31] and 251 [3-37] of the digital version I have. It is a basic engineering principle ... "things go back in where they came from").
Personally, I'd agree with you if you had said, "it's no big thing to lose sleep over if you don't" (we all make mistakes) ... but it's better that folks at least know what good practice is first, and establish good habits (and RTFM), rather than encourage them to be sloppy. Because another day it may well matter.
Correct me if I am wrong.
25. Install the hydraulic lifters in the crankcase bores with the flats facing forward and rearward. To preserve existing wear patterns, orientation of the oil hole (inboard or outboard) should have been noted during disassembly. To avoid damage, do not drop lifters onto cam lobes.
Last edited by Big Member; 01-01-2016 at 08:54 AM.
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#8
01-01-2016, 10:24 AM
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No, the 'correct' answer is as I stated it.
It's in Harley-Davidson's factory service manual ... as it says, "To preserve existing wear patterns".
(P. 245 [3-31] and 251 [3-37] of the digital version I have. It is a basic engineering principle ... "things go back in where they came from").
Personally, I'd agree with you if you had said, "it's no big thing to lose sleep over if you don't" (we all make mistakes) ... but it's better that folks at least know what good practice is first, and establish good habits (and RTFM), rather than encourage them to be sloppy. Because another day it may well matter.
Correct me if I am wrong.
It's in Harley-Davidson's factory service manual ... as it says, "To preserve existing wear patterns".
(P. 245 [3-31] and 251 [3-37] of the digital version I have. It is a basic engineering principle ... "things go back in where they came from").
Personally, I'd agree with you if you had said, "it's no big thing to lose sleep over if you don't" (we all make mistakes) ... but it's better that folks at least know what good practice is first, and establish good habits (and RTFM), rather than encourage them to be sloppy. Because another day it may well matter.
Correct me if I am wrong.
Good practice, yes, but it's nowhere to be found in the '94 H-D service manual I have (I just looked-again). I guess if it WAS that critical, I'd be boned if I put new lifters in the existing lifter blocks, even though I've done just that a half dozen times to this motor.
#9
01-01-2016, 12:06 PM
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I will accept that. The digital one I have is from 1999, and I was too lazy to get up and dig out the old paper one to check.
But, no, it's not the same as when putting in new parts.
When putting back worn parts you have two potentially worn elements that have worn together; one might have worn loose, another still be tight etc.
When putting in new parts, other protocols apply, e.g. measuring tolerances, looking for surface damage and wear, cleaning up rough surfaces etc.
I am sure the instructions/manuals say that too.
One would hope that new parts were perfectly to spec ... but we all know that does not always happen, especially at the cheapo of the market.
But, no, it's not the same as when putting in new parts.
When putting back worn parts you have two potentially worn elements that have worn together; one might have worn loose, another still be tight etc.
When putting in new parts, other protocols apply, e.g. measuring tolerances, looking for surface damage and wear, cleaning up rough surfaces etc.
I am sure the instructions/manuals say that too.
One would hope that new parts were perfectly to spec ... but we all know that does not always happen, especially at the cheapo of the market.
#10
01-01-2016, 04:43 PM
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No, the 'correct' answer is as I stated it.
It's in Harley-Davidson's factory service manual ... as it says, "To preserve existing wear patterns".
(P. 245 [3-31] and 251 [3-37] of the digital version I have. It is a basic engineering principle ... "things go back in where they came from").
Personally, I'd agree with you if you had said, "it's no big thing to lose sleep over if you don't" (we all make mistakes) ... but it's better that folks at least know what good practice is first, and establish good habits (and RTFM), rather than encourage them to be sloppy. Because another day it may well matter.
Correct me if I am wrong.
It's in Harley-Davidson's factory service manual ... as it says, "To preserve existing wear patterns".
(P. 245 [3-31] and 251 [3-37] of the digital version I have. It is a basic engineering principle ... "things go back in where they came from").
Personally, I'd agree with you if you had said, "it's no big thing to lose sleep over if you don't" (we all make mistakes) ... but it's better that folks at least know what good practice is first, and establish good habits (and RTFM), rather than encourage them to be sloppy. Because another day it may well matter.
Correct me if I am wrong.
What would I know about it, I've only been fixing Harleys for 35 years....the wear in low-mileage used lifters is insignificant and as I said earlier, you can put new ones into used lifter blocks...yes things do go back where they came from BUT!!!! he was asking about fitting used lifters from another bike....in which case it doesn't matter where they go....if you are going to challenge people on here you really oughta stick to the question that is actually being asked....