Nice Vid of Noise That Has been Tormenting Me
#31
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Pine Flat Dam/South Bay Area, CA
Posts: 12,036
Received 24,724 Likes
on
8,018 Posts
One more thing. In one of the pictures you posted it looked like possibly the bottom of the piston skirt had a witness mark where it was making contact with the crankcase where it was bored out for the cylinder spigot. Don't get tunnel vision and assume that there's just one problem. You will want to revisit every step of the way. Good luck.
#32
One more thing. In one of the pictures you posted it looked like possibly the bottom of the piston skirt had a witness mark where it was making contact with the crankcase where it was bored out for the cylinder spigot. Don't get tunnel vision and assume that there's just one problem. You will want to revisit every step of the way. Good luck.
There have been quite a few comments on this post, but looking back you'll see that i addressed the contact with the case issue over a month ago. The witness marks have
remained the same since I removed additional material and that is no longer an issue. S&S says to remove material from the skirts of the pistons with a file if piston to piston clearance at BDC isn't sufficient so I'm assuming that the small amount of material lost from contacting the case will have no adverse effect on anything. I'll file them to uniformity when I dismantle the engine now that I found where S&S says to do it.
So you are saying that honing two thousandths forme the cylinder is my only option? It seems lije It's acceptable as two thousandths is a small amount and should still measure two thousandths when torqued. Paint will come off also. If someone was hell-bent on coloring the inside of a crankcase, how could it be done effectively and in a way that will not introduce the possibility of foreign material. Anodizing fades quickly, apparently. It's kinda like the "Lucky You" on the inside of the fly of a pair of Lucky Jeans. It's rarely visible and then only to very few people but it does look pretty cool when it is revealed. It's definitely unique to the brand. If by some miracle this takes off into a custom bike venture, it would be nice if someone took off the cylinders or split the case and saw it to identify it immediately as a quality Cabo Creation build. This bike is definitely the most badass bike in the entire Baja and, when finally clearanced and tuned cotrectly, is up there with some of the world class custom bikes. I was at the Cave Creek, AZ event this year and there were only two bikes that were even comparable to it. I rode with a brand new CVO Road Glide, Harley's flagship most expensive and high performance bike, a couple weeks ago and whenever we stopped people walked by it as if it was invisible and came up asking for pictures and details about my bike. Happens every time I take it out. I haven't even mounted the fenders or got the pinstriping done yet. Surprises the hell out of me. I would like to do it solely for it's artistic value, if nothing else.
#33
You won't respond to my post, that's OK, I may have offended you along the way, honesty does that sometimes.
I had to go search your other threads to see what took place, it's not pretty.
You changed bore and stroke and didn't do a mock up to check clearance on everything.
You say you clearance the cases, looks like you tried to do that on the bike, you still have no idea what's actually going on in there as far as interference issues.
You have to put the crank, pistons(without the rings) and cylinders together in a case half to check for interference, turn to BDC and rock the pistons, look for skirt and piston to piston, I'd want about .050" everywhere. Also need to check deck height at TDC and piston to valve.
You painted the cases, clogged the oil system with paint and sealer, added shavings from piston contact and cylinder wall scuffing, ground the cases assembled on the bike, shavings everywhere.
All that crap is in your big end rod bearings, lifters, piston jets, did no favors for the lifter bores, oil pan, and so on.
The stock 88" timing tables could be an issue.
Those pistons are now paper weights.
You may be able to salvage the cylinders.
Start over and maybe take the S&S tech guy's advise.
Good Luck
I had to go search your other threads to see what took place, it's not pretty.
You changed bore and stroke and didn't do a mock up to check clearance on everything.
You say you clearance the cases, looks like you tried to do that on the bike, you still have no idea what's actually going on in there as far as interference issues.
You have to put the crank, pistons(without the rings) and cylinders together in a case half to check for interference, turn to BDC and rock the pistons, look for skirt and piston to piston, I'd want about .050" everywhere. Also need to check deck height at TDC and piston to valve.
You painted the cases, clogged the oil system with paint and sealer, added shavings from piston contact and cylinder wall scuffing, ground the cases assembled on the bike, shavings everywhere.
All that crap is in your big end rod bearings, lifters, piston jets, did no favors for the lifter bores, oil pan, and so on.
The stock 88" timing tables could be an issue.
Those pistons are now paper weights.
You may be able to salvage the cylinders.
Start over and maybe take the S&S tech guy's advise.
Good Luck
The following 4 users liked this post by Schex:
Hannibal Smith (09-09-2024),
Max Headflow (07-05-2024),
NorthWestern (07-05-2024),
Tommy C (07-05-2024)
#34
You won't respond to my post, that's OK, I may have offended you along the way, honesty does that sometimes.
I had to go search your other threads to see what took place, it's not pretty.
You changed bore and stroke and didn't do a mock up to check clearance on everything.
You say you clearance the cases, looks like you tried to do that on the bike, you still have no idea what's actually going on in there as far as interference issues.
You have to put the crank, pistons(without the rings) and cylinders together in a case half to check for interference, turn to BDC and rock the pistons, look for skirt and piston to piston, I'd want about .050" everywhere. Also need to check deck height at TDC and piston to valve.
You painted the cases, clogged the oil system with paint and sealer, added shavings from piston contact and cylinder wall scuffing, ground the cases assembled on the bike, shavings everywhere.
All that crap is in your big end rod bearings, lifters, piston jets, did no favors for the lifter bores, oil pan, and so on.
The stock 88" timing tables could be an issue.
Those pistons are now paper weights.
You may be able to salvage the cylinders.
Start over and maybe take the S&S tech guy's advise.
Good Luck
I had to go search your other threads to see what took place, it's not pretty.
You changed bore and stroke and didn't do a mock up to check clearance on everything.
You say you clearance the cases, looks like you tried to do that on the bike, you still have no idea what's actually going on in there as far as interference issues.
You have to put the crank, pistons(without the rings) and cylinders together in a case half to check for interference, turn to BDC and rock the pistons, look for skirt and piston to piston, I'd want about .050" everywhere. Also need to check deck height at TDC and piston to valve.
You painted the cases, clogged the oil system with paint and sealer, added shavings from piston contact and cylinder wall scuffing, ground the cases assembled on the bike, shavings everywhere.
All that crap is in your big end rod bearings, lifters, piston jets, did no favors for the lifter bores, oil pan, and so on.
The stock 88" timing tables could be an issue.
Those pistons are now paper weights.
You may be able to salvage the cylinders.
Start over and maybe take the S&S tech guy's advise.
Good Luck
#35
#36
#37
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Pine Flat Dam/South Bay Area, CA
Posts: 12,036
Received 24,724 Likes
on
8,018 Posts
Thanks Tommy,
There have been quite a few comments on this post, but looking back you'll see that i addressed the contact with the case issue over a month ago. The witness marks have
remained the same since I removed additional material and that is no longer an issue. S&S says to remove material from the skirts of the pistons with a file if piston to piston clearance at BDC isn't sufficient so I'm assuming that the small amount of material lost from contacting the case will have no adverse effect on anything. I'll file them to uniformity when I dismantle the engine now that I found where S&S says to do it.
So you are saying that honing two thousandths forme the cylinder is my only option? It seems lije It's acceptable as two thousandths is a small amount and should still measure two thousandths when torqued. Paint will come off also. If someone was hell-bent on coloring the inside of a crankcase, how could it be done effectively and in a way that will not introduce the possibility of foreign material. Anodizing fades quickly, apparently. It's kinda like the "Lucky You" on the inside of the fly of a pair of Lucky Jeans. It's rarely visible and then only to very few people but it does look pretty cool when it is revealed. It's definitely unique to the brand. If by some miracle this takes off into a custom bike venture, it would be nice if someone took off the cylinders or split the case and saw it to identify it immediately as a quality Cabo Creation build. This bike is definitely the most badass bike in the entire Baja and, when finally clearanced and tuned cotrectly, is up there with some of the world class custom bikes. I was at the Cave Creek, AZ event this year and there were only two bikes that were even comparable to it. I rode with a brand new CVO Road Glide, Harley's flagship most expensive and high performance bike, a couple weeks ago and whenever we stopped people walked by it as if it was invisible and came up asking for pictures and details about my bike. Happens every time I take it out. I haven't even mounted the fenders or got the pinstriping done yet. Surprises the hell out of me. I would like to do it solely for it's artistic value, if nothing else.
There have been quite a few comments on this post, but looking back you'll see that i addressed the contact with the case issue over a month ago. The witness marks have
remained the same since I removed additional material and that is no longer an issue. S&S says to remove material from the skirts of the pistons with a file if piston to piston clearance at BDC isn't sufficient so I'm assuming that the small amount of material lost from contacting the case will have no adverse effect on anything. I'll file them to uniformity when I dismantle the engine now that I found where S&S says to do it.
So you are saying that honing two thousandths forme the cylinder is my only option? It seems lije It's acceptable as two thousandths is a small amount and should still measure two thousandths when torqued. Paint will come off also. If someone was hell-bent on coloring the inside of a crankcase, how could it be done effectively and in a way that will not introduce the possibility of foreign material. Anodizing fades quickly, apparently. It's kinda like the "Lucky You" on the inside of the fly of a pair of Lucky Jeans. It's rarely visible and then only to very few people but it does look pretty cool when it is revealed. It's definitely unique to the brand. If by some miracle this takes off into a custom bike venture, it would be nice if someone took off the cylinders or split the case and saw it to identify it immediately as a quality Cabo Creation build. This bike is definitely the most badass bike in the entire Baja and, when finally clearanced and tuned cotrectly, is up there with some of the world class custom bikes. I was at the Cave Creek, AZ event this year and there were only two bikes that were even comparable to it. I rode with a brand new CVO Road Glide, Harley's flagship most expensive and high performance bike, a couple weeks ago and whenever we stopped people walked by it as if it was invisible and came up asking for pictures and details about my bike. Happens every time I take it out. I haven't even mounted the fenders or got the pinstriping done yet. Surprises the hell out of me. I would like to do it solely for it's artistic value, if nothing else.
The proper cylinder finish is very important for break in and ring seal.
Last edited by Tommy C; 07-05-2024 at 08:54 PM.
#38
Another update with some good news:
S&S accepted full responsibility for sending me defective pa rest in the way of clearance. A new kit is on the way. I hope to God that they measure the pistons and cylinders in torque plates before they send it. For some reason their tech support insisted that I not measure the last set before installation. Ii wish did because I could have addressed the problem before any damage was done and be riding a perfectly tuned motorcycle right now.
S&S accepted full responsibility for sending me defective pa rest in the way of clearance. A new kit is on the way. I hope to God that they measure the pistons and cylinders in torque plates before they send it. For some reason their tech support insisted that I not measure the last set before installation. Ii wish did because I could have addressed the problem before any damage was done and be riding a perfectly tuned motorcycle right now.
The following users liked this post:
Jackie Paper (07-27-2024)
#39
It is finished....
I wanted to thank everyone for their time and effort in replying to this post, You all have helped me a lot. Even if a suggestion wasn't the problem, i still enjoyed tearing it down to check it out. I've split the case three times in this build and taken the top end and crankcase apart maybe 20 or more times, lol. Taking the fuel tank off is a breeze now when in the past it was a daunting task even in thought. The oil tank, on the other hand, has caused me to believe that Satan does exist and he does torment mankind.
The problems are gone, thank God! The new set of pistons and cylinders from S&S measured perfectly at .0025 to .003 clearance from front to back, top to bottom. A special thanks to Lori Egge, S&S sales, who sent me this third set, having confidence in me and my mechanical abilities even though a tech support rep was verbally thrashing me at the company to everyone. I guess the pics of evidence of the front piston seizing at the bottom of the cylinder didn't hurt, but the tech support guy was saying everything possible, all untrue, which i could prove, thankfully. I'm sure that Lori wasn't the only one to make the decision so I thank S&S as a whole.
Another big problem i had was the rear cam chain. It was so stretched out that there was enough slack to align another tooth past the timing mark. Also very stiff. Definitely causing the tensioner to reach too far and that's what was making all the ticking separate from the sound of the piston seizing when the motor warmed up. I discovered this because it began slapping the top of the oil pump and left marks, but no real damage, on the top of it.
The bike sounds and runs amazing now. Smooth and mechanically silent. Better than I thought a properly functioning big bore and cam chest stroker kit would or could sound.
I have about $50k invested in this build and it feels good to finally be able to ride it and have the motor running without being embarrassed when people are around. It's always been somewhat of a celebrity when I bring it out, photo requests and conversation and compliments at almost every stop. I ride with a brand new Road Glide CVO frequently and people walk by it like it's invisible and ask about my bike. Wasn't my intention and kinda makes me feel bad, it's a badass bike my friend has, but it is what it is. I'm happy to have created something that is enjoyed by many people. Many have said it's no longer just a motorcycle, but it's also a piece of true art. I was aiming for that. It's nice to hear people say it on their own accord.
Again, thank you everyone here at HD Forums. I will post a video of it running shortly.
The problems are gone, thank God! The new set of pistons and cylinders from S&S measured perfectly at .0025 to .003 clearance from front to back, top to bottom. A special thanks to Lori Egge, S&S sales, who sent me this third set, having confidence in me and my mechanical abilities even though a tech support rep was verbally thrashing me at the company to everyone. I guess the pics of evidence of the front piston seizing at the bottom of the cylinder didn't hurt, but the tech support guy was saying everything possible, all untrue, which i could prove, thankfully. I'm sure that Lori wasn't the only one to make the decision so I thank S&S as a whole.
Another big problem i had was the rear cam chain. It was so stretched out that there was enough slack to align another tooth past the timing mark. Also very stiff. Definitely causing the tensioner to reach too far and that's what was making all the ticking separate from the sound of the piston seizing when the motor warmed up. I discovered this because it began slapping the top of the oil pump and left marks, but no real damage, on the top of it.
The bike sounds and runs amazing now. Smooth and mechanically silent. Better than I thought a properly functioning big bore and cam chest stroker kit would or could sound.
I have about $50k invested in this build and it feels good to finally be able to ride it and have the motor running without being embarrassed when people are around. It's always been somewhat of a celebrity when I bring it out, photo requests and conversation and compliments at almost every stop. I ride with a brand new Road Glide CVO frequently and people walk by it like it's invisible and ask about my bike. Wasn't my intention and kinda makes me feel bad, it's a badass bike my friend has, but it is what it is. I'm happy to have created something that is enjoyed by many people. Many have said it's no longer just a motorcycle, but it's also a piece of true art. I was aiming for that. It's nice to hear people say it on their own accord.
Again, thank you everyone here at HD Forums. I will post a video of it running shortly.
The following 2 users liked this post by davidlyons37:
Jackie Paper (08-31-2024),
Max Headflow (08-31-2024)
#40
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post